Heating / hot water controllers

Yes, the Hive trv’s are supposed to integrate with the hive system. As ChrisW mentions they were expensive, but opted for them in the end as hoping the same manufacturer would stand best chance of it working well.

Toolstation have an offer on at the moment which I think is 15-20% off. Still not cheap thou.

Should be fitted in next week to ten days so can report back if any good.
 
Hive seems to be the more versatile, though I haven’t looked at the more expensive ones.

Not sure I can see the point, but does anyone integrate the smart heating with other home automation ?
 
The.dunnster said:
Yes, the Hive trv’s are supposed to integrate with the hive system. As ChrisW mentions they were expensive, but opted for them in the end as hoping the same manufacturer would stand best chance of it working well.

Toolstation have an offer on at the moment which I think is 15-20% off. Still not cheap thou.

Should be fitted in next week to ten days so can report back if any good.
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Be interested to know if the hive TRV replaces the actual valve too or just the ‘control’ part ?
 
Alan, what Chris says above.

Just to clarify, where Chris mentions valve above, in the case of the hive, the £44 item attaches to an existing trv not a normal radiator valve. So if your rad doesn’t have a ‘manual trv’ you need the more expensive one.

My trv’s have arrived from Toolstation. I’ve got 6 trv’s on radiators already to add the £44 ones to and 3 rads without trv’s to add the other more expensive ones to. the heating engineer is going to fit a new radiator and do all the trv’s in about a week when he drains the system. Very tempted to swap over the manual trv’s to hive trv’s myself before then, but have been advised they take a while to adjust and need to heat up and totally cool down a few times to be accurate.

Cheers
 
The.dunnster said:
Alan, what Chris says above.

Just to clarify, where Chris mentions valve above, in the case of the hive, the £44 item attaches to an existing trv not a normal radiator valve. So if your rad doesn’t have a ‘manual trv’ you need the more expensive one.

My trv’s have arrived from Toolstation. I’ve got 6 trv’s on radiators already to add the £44 ones to and 3 rads without trv’s to add the other more expensive ones to. the heating engineer is going to fit a new radiator and do all the trv’s in about a week when he drains the system. Very tempted to swap over the manual trv’s to hive trv’s myself before then, but have been advised they take a while to adjust and need to heat up and totally cool down a few times to be accurate.

Cheers
Click to expand...
I bet he'll curse you as they aren't the same off-set as the current ones... or may be not.
 
Alan Williams said:
Hive seems to be the more versatile, though I haven’t looked at the more expensive ones.

Not sure I can see the point, but does anyone integrate the smart heating with other home automation ?
Click to expand...
I can see the appeal of remote control, but a basic TRV is fine for us.
Our home is occupied nearly 24/7....
 
The.dunnster said:
Alan, what Chris says above.

Just to clarify, where Chris mentions valve above, in the case of the hive, the £44 item attaches to an existing trv not a normal radiator valve. So if your rad doesn’t have a ‘manual trv’ you need the more expensive one.

My trv’s have arrived from Toolstation. I’ve got 6 trv’s on radiators already to add the £44 ones to and 3 rads without trv’s to add the other more expensive ones to. the heating engineer is going to fit a new radiator and do all the trv’s in about a week when he drains the system. Very tempted to swap over the manual trv’s to hive trv’s myself before then, but have been advised they take a while to adjust and need to heat up and totally cool down a few times to be accurate.

Cheers
Click to expand...
Will be interested to hear what you think once it’s all up and running.
I’d guess there is some kind of hysteresis built in, and that the temperature sensor is part of the TRV, so it’s close to the rad. Then would just be a case of adjusting accordingly to get room right.
 
AirCon said:
I can see the appeal of remote control, but a basic TRV is fine for us.
Our home is occupied nearly 24/7....
Click to expand...

I can’t resist a gadget, and sometimes it’s more fun than value to it.
Was thinking things like switch the light off triggers turning the heating down etc.
 
I’d like better control of the hot water tank. Not sure how to go about it though.

Would it be reliable to measure the pipes near the tank ?

I want to know, how long it takes the boiler to heat the tank fully from cold.
How long it takes the immersion heater to do same.

What about a way of measuring the water temperature to know when to turn the hot water heating on ?

I know there’s probably no real value to knowing the above, just out of interest to me.
 
The.dunnster said:
He’s cursing me for lots at the moment so be good to keep the momentum up! The joys of a 50’s house that’s been’upgraded’ at various stages in its life on the cheap! :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...

Ours, we think, is about 1830’s.
Some of the ‘modernisations’ difficult to fault find.
 
Alan Williams said:
I’d like better control of the hot water tank. Not sure how to go about it though.

Would it be reliable to measure the pipes near the tank ?

I want to know, how long it takes the boiler to heat the tank fully from cold.
How long it takes the immersion heater to do same.

What about a way of measuring the water temperature to know when to turn the hot water heating on ?

I know there’s probably no real value to knowing the above, just out of interest to me.
Click to expand...
It is easy enough to purchase either a local or remote thermistor sensed temperature gauge.
 
AirCon said:
It is easy enough to purchase either a local or remote thermistor sensed temperature gauge.
Click to expand...
Already have a few of them connected to ESP8266s, can’t see a way of getting one inside the water tank though.

I’m hoping that the wiser system will help me work out how long it takes to heat the water tank.
 
Alan Williams said:
Already have a few of them connected to ESP8266s, can’t see a way of getting one inside the water tank though.

I’m hoping that the wiser system will help me work out how long it takes to heat the water tank.
Click to expand...
Does your tank not have pockets?
Is it lagged or bare copper etc?
 
AirCon said:
Does your tank not have pockets?
Is it lagged or bare copper etc?
Click to expand...
Lagged.

I can’t see an easy way of putting a sensor in the tank.

In theory (or my theory) is the wiser system will give me a history of demand on the boiler, so with just the hot water on I should be able to see how long it takes to heat the tank.
Not sure it’s much use knowing anyway, more out of interest than anything.
 
Alan Williams said:
Lagged.

I can’t see an easy way of putting a sensor in the tank.

In theory (or my theory) is the wiser system will give me a history of demand on the boiler, so with just the hot water on I should be able to see how long it takes to heat the tank.
Not sure it’s much use knowing anyway, more out of interest than anything.
Click to expand...
Is the lagging secondary or bonded on by the manufacturer.
Calculating the time taken to heat the water with the electric immersion heater is relatively easy.
Volume of water in litres, start temperature, set point (final) temperature, kW of the heater...

Using the formula Pt = (4.2 × L × T ) ÷ 3600 you can calculate the time it takes to heat a specific quantity of water from one temperature to another temperature. Once you have calculated the thermal power used to heat the water, as represented by Pt in the above equation, divide this number by the heater element rating to find out how long it would take to heat your water.

Calculate Kilowatt-Hours​

Calculate the kilowatt-hours (kWh) required to heat the water using the following formula: Pt = (4.2 × L × T ) ÷ 3600. Pt is the power used to heat the water, in kWh. L is the number of liters of water that is being heated and T is the difference in temperature from what you started with, in degrees Celsius.
 
AirCon said:
Is the lagging secondary or bonded on by the manufacturer.
Calculating the time taken to heat the water with the electric immersion heater is relatively easy.
Volume of water in litres, start temperature, set point (final) temperature, kW of the heater...

Using the formula Pt = (4.2 × L × T ) ÷ 3600 you can calculate the time it takes to heat a specific quantity of water from one temperature to another temperature. Once you have calculated the thermal power used to heat the water, as represented by Pt in the above equation, divide this number by the heater element rating to find out how long it would take to heat your water.

Calculate Kilowatt-Hours​

Calculate the kilowatt-hours (kWh) required to heat the water using the following formula: Pt = (4.2 × L × T ) ÷ 3600. Pt is the power used to heat the water, in kWh. L is the number of liters of water that is being heated and T is the difference in temperature from what you started with, in degrees Celsius.
Click to expand...
It’s bonded.

I think we’ve only used the immersion heater a couple of times over the years, when the boiler has had a problem. Probably worth working out which is cheapest way to heat the water. 🤔

Calculations should give a good indication, but if I can I’d like to measure it.
 
Alan Williams said:
It’s bonded.

I think we’ve only used the immersion heater a couple of times over the years, when the boiler has had a problem. Probably worth working out which is cheapest way to heat the water. 🤔

Calculations should give a good indication, but if I can I’d like to measure it.
Click to expand...
The energy is the same whether it's direct electric or gas boiler (modern boiler will be ~ 90% efficient) so when gas gets to over 90% of electric cost electric is then cheaper 😁
 
The immersion heater is 100% efficient. ... every penny spent on electric is used to heat the water.
There will be some warming of the cable from the meter to the switch to the heater, but that is just a few watts over say 3500 in the tank.
Your gas boiler will be around 90% efficient, with 10% or less going up the flue.
Electric costs around twould and a half times the price of gas, per kW.... so you know already which is cheaper.
 
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Alan Williams said:
Looks like what I was trying to do with my raspberry pi / esp8266 sensors.

Not sure it would work on a bonded tank ?

Doesn’t say how much either. 🤔
Click to expand...
You have to remove the foam to get the sensor to touch the metal of the tank.
A simple thermistor would do ptc or ntc..
 
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