DIY..... its cheaper

D

ducatipaddy

New member
One of the problems with rebuilds today is everyone has such high standards very few of us have the equipment of facilities to carry out the work needed to the standard we expect. No one wants to spend hours with wetNdry and wire wool and auto sol and a buffing wheel on a drill when they can just pay someone else to polish the part to a standard we could never reach in a month of Sundays.
How many of us can chrome plate? Or have a spray booth come to that ? hmmmmm, so at what point do we cease to be rebuilders and become just project managers ? Delegators ?
Well the one thing we can all do is engines. We may not think we can but if you can work a spanner, fit a cir-clip and tighten a screw we have 95% of the skills needed. The other 5% is readily available on the internet through forums like this and search engines. Complete manuals, parts lists, exploded diagrams are all waiting to be down loaded, Best of all in taking it to bits…..you learn what bit goes where  or went where. Basically if you pull it to bits, take a snap shot on the phone or camera at each step. Lay it all out and keep the shims with their associated parts and really it just like an Airfix kit we all built when we were kids.
Yea but bearings ?? what about bearings ? companies like “Bearings direct” will sell you individual bearings at a fraction of the Ducati prices. All bearings you remove will have a part number on the rim so replacement is straight forward, Heat the crank cases to 100c in the oven and the old ones will come out easily. Wear ?? Wear is common sense but most workshop manuals will give you a tolerance for parts that might wear.
But engines are very complicated!! I wouldn't know where to start. Engines are not complicated! they are simplified by the manufacturer for ease of assembly and to have as few parts as necessary. Engines are just a collection of sub-assemblies Crank , gearbox, heads and barrels. Everything else bolts on the outside like the clutch alternator and selector, ignition and oils pump etc ;) easy.

This is a nice messy 200cc Elite engine I picked up. As you can see I have already taken the head and barrels off. The head and barrels are held on by Four bolts….so there you go, four bolts. Easy.


Alternator one nut, clutch one nut, bottom bevel gear one nut and drive sprocket…one nut and you are nearly ready to split the cases. I’m not writing a workshop manual here but you get my drift ? it’s all pretty basic stuff if you take it one bit at a time.



Then its just a case of cleaning the bits up..crancases a light vapor blast..


Everything else is just Gunk and a brush..like the crank and gearbox. This is all thats in the cases...nothing to be frightened of :)


Join the cases back together


Add some gears, straight forward , line up the dots.


Barrel rebored at sutton Rebores £40 and piston from Laceys £120.

and add the shinny bits..and place in a salad bowl.....Leave to stand




Gaskets £30 , Bearings £80, Piston £120, re-bore £40, S/S screws and odds”N”ends £50. So plenty of change from £350. Now……… how much did your last engine rebuild cost ? ;)

Guess what ? it started first kick..i was more surprised than anyone :)
 
Paddy - a most entertaining post, and I look forward to seeing the completed Elite. I bet refurbishing the fuel tank costs more than the engine rebuild though.
If and when my 250 MK3 engine needs a rebuild, I think I'd be happy to do it myself - the single engine is not so complicated and I know the history of my bike. The last time the cases were apart it was rebuilt by Geoff Baines.
However, with my bevel twin I don't have the confidence to rebuild it. It's just been abused so much over the years that I don't know which bits are correct and in the right order. Also I don't know how to assess each part for wear like a proper mechanic would. That's why I'll get help to build the twin. I'm happy to be a Delegator and Project Manager!
Great post though. Please update on the progress. I have a soft spot for 200 Elites as I had one when I was 18.
Derek
 
Good grief ! you want more ?
I'm afraid the rest was farmed out as to be honest this was work rather than pleasure. As you say the tank on the Elite is a restoration project in its self.
this was the tank.



Its a strange one really because there was no rust on the top but you can see the paint which is probably original has crazed and shrunk.. the underside was a different matter and you could see where it had rusted through where it had been left wet and leant up against a wall. somebody had made a really messy attempt to lead solder it ansd while it was not pretty it was very effective. i took it to Ashford plating and got them to blast it and give me a report. Long and the shoret was the lead solder was so proud it could be shaped back to tank shape and as it was 90% underneath anyway we decided to go ahead. Ashford secialise in heavy copper plate, this means they can actually build up a surface thickness and polish back to mirror finish so that's what we did, the copper plate filling any imperfection.
All that was followed by a heavy chrome plate and polish



The idea is to polish the area thats exposed and leave the area to be painted, still chromed but not polished. Paint was done by Cycle sprays in Cranleigh in Surrey and after a little research i think we got the candy apple red about right. Like the Blues this is silver with a clear colour top coat....in this case red.....you sort of guessed that didnt you :-)


the rest of the Red was just headlamp shell and shock tops + side pannels


Again the gold was a bit of a problem but Tony at cyclesprays had done an Elite before so had some paint left over which he was able to show me....and we settled on this



The frame and assembled forks watching Eastenders in the sitting room.
the problem with these single is the quantity of paint ! no quick tank and side panels here, everything is painted from forks to mudguards and shocks to brake lever to headlamp and bottom yoke...I think there were 25 separate items so it
doesn't come cheap.

Note the shocks !! maybe i will tell you about them next :)
 
Last edited:
Hi Paddy,

Great posts, thanks for the link to Cycle sprays in Cranleigh. I think he did my Rep 25 years ago but it might have been another Cranleigh painting Diva.

Lord help us from
watching Eastenders in the sitting room
Click to expand...
Regarding how easy it is to put an engine back together, I'd like to expose my own insecurities for which I receive regular medication (that'll be the White Hart at Stopham ;-) ).

I have in the past set up my valves when I worked for Thorn EMI Defence Systems at Sheerwater, Woking. That's because they had the most amazing workshop with friendly talented milling machine & lathe operators who'd happily spend a lunch break running shims through their magnetic bed grinding machine, taking off a tenth of a thou at each pass whilst I fiddled with the parts alongside until I had achieved valve nirvana.

They also had hot vapour machines for cleaning off engine parts. Most excellent!

However the documentation for setting up upper & lower bevels, how to shim gearboxes when multiple parts have been replaced, how to shim up crankshafts etc., is all arcane knowledge unless you already have it.

When I replaced the mainshaft, layshaft, a couple of gears, all of the bearings and the sleeve gear I really had no idea where to start in terms of shimming the gearbox.

Your posts are interesting & fun, but if your posts are a teaser before the real meat of spilling the beans on how to screw a bevel engine together so it doesn't go bang then I am all ears. Haynes while quaint does not hit the spot.

I am all ears anyway, particularly if a pint is involved. MartinW has done all this by himself as have others, I am sure. I have skill/knowledge envy but won't try this until I can afford for it to go bang or am completely sure of my abilities, which is likely to be never bearing in mind recent experience.
 
Secret of shimming is accurate measuring equip. You need a micrometer and a good DTI. If you can use a DTI to measure end float you are half way there. Always measure all your end floats before you strip the engine down and always keep the shims in the right order in the right place. You will almost certainly have to change some but you need a good starting point and the stock shimming is a good starting point. Things like top bevel gears and cams don't really move even in a strip, they will go back almost where they were so you might be lucky there. The only other thing is patience. You might need to strip assemblies a few times to change shims but you sort of get a feel for when its right and when its not quite.
To be quite honest the thing that always worries me is the centre crankcase gasket. You never know if its going to be oil tight till you start the engine and if its not.......its a complete strip down again...been there done that :) I did once put a spacer on the layshaft of a 900ss on the wrong end and found on the road test i only had 3 gears......funny thing is you only do that once if you know what i mean.....


This was a complete wreck when i bought it, this was the 3 speed 900SS,
I had original photos of it outside the factory when it was picked up by its original owner and the Campags, polished forklegs and brembo golds were all as it came off the production line. The next one off the line was parked behind it with FPS wheels and black calipers and fork legs....no two the same :) This bike went to the Channel islands and joined a collection.

This was a build for a client years ago

This was supposed to be original...but when i stripped it i found it was a fake.
 
A shame that dishonesty (If that is what it was) in selling the fake overshadows the time and effort involved in making such a thing of beauty. Was the builder the faker?
 
No Martin the guy who owned it thought it was real and To be honest i didn't tell him otherwise. He was happy with what he had. this was about 15 years ago and i did a complete restoration starting with a bare frame to what you see. I saw this bike last year for sale, it had spent the 15 years in a damp garage under a tarpaulin, it had never been used, the exhausts had rotten through, the chrome was rusty and the paint and alloy was flat.. Even the tires had perished. The funny thing was that even in that state and marked as a good copy it was worth more than when i finished the resto 15 years ago :) We forget how prices have rocketed. I did that black and gold above 12 years ago and got £5750 for it :)
 
Ah Paddy that tank truly is a thing of beauty. Has there ever been a lovelier piece of motorcycle art than the Elite Jellymould - with it's "carburanti lubrificanti" filler cap? Well you certainly didn't turn that around for £350....
Great thread, but I was feeling quite good about my old banger and now you put it right in it's place with all your exotica!
 
The fully enclosed rear shocks on an Elite and other Ducatis of the period can be a problem. Obviously you can’t see what the damper rods are like and stripping them is not easy as you can’t just use a pair of spring compressors as you cant get to the springs. There are proper tools but I used a big old pillar drill as a press, once you have the shock compressed you can lift one of the adjuster rings at the bottom and three 5/16 ish ball bearings drop out and the shock comes apart.
this is how i got mine...the two adjuster rings at the base are actually upside down



Someone had assembled it wrongly in a futile attempt to thwart me i think :)

Here you can see the track near the base that the three balls run in to give you your adjustment



And this is the sum of the parts.



I had already heard that the seals for these early shocks are just unavailable and as neither of mine had any oil in at all i knew i would need to do something.
I pinged them out of their recess, they just sit like a fork seal and measured them up..cant remember the size off hand but i did find a similar stock seal at "bearing supplies" just 1mm bigger on the OD
Here he is in situ, he's held in place by the top threaded ring



And pinged out


Solution was easy, just machine 1mm out of the recess where he sits and push in the new off the shelf seal. Of course most will need to take it to a local engineering shop but its a 5 min job if you give them the seals as well and will probably cost you a pint.

reassembly is just a reverse opp, i used 70cc of light 10w fork oil in mine and that seems to work fine.
The two adjuster rings should be chrome. On the Elite the top and bottom covers should be polished alloy and on the 175 sports etc the tops should be painted and the bottoms polished. Fully polished alloy shocks are just not practical so i went for painted tops for ease of cleaning.
Here we are reassembled , painted, chromed and with the adjuster cups up the right way :)
 
Glawster said:
Ah Paddy that tank truly is a thing of beauty. Has there ever been a lovelier piece of motorcycle art than the Elite Jellymould - with it's "carburanti lubrificanti" filler cap? Well you certainly didn't turn that around for £350....
Great thread, but I was feeling quite good about my old banger and now you put it right in it's place with all your exotica!
Click to expand...

Derek the work you have done on the 860 and that beautiful little single is first class. I hope you don't think i am just showing off !! don't forget bikes like that 750 are not mine and the ones that are mine have to be sold to finance the next one.:(
 
Those preload adjusters with the 3 balls really are a pain aren't they? I have the same dampers on my 250, although luckily with exposed springs which at least give you something to get hold of to compress. My favoured method is to buy a bag of big cable ties from Screwfix and gradually compress the spring with them (I'm too mean to buy a proper spring compressor). However on those shrouded shocks it really does look much more difficult.
 
Thing is, only way you can do it is by pushing the lower alloy sleeve up and compressing the spring like that. You need to get it compressed enough to get the adjuster ring up at least 1". Problem is that alloy sleeve is only 1mm thick, you can crush it like a coke can in your hand if you are not careful. best bet if you are doing this at home is to place shock upside down so its standing on its top lug. Cut a hole in a piece of thick plywood so it goes over the adjuster but not the lower alloy sleeve then push down on the ply. Even so you will probably need a press or drill press and a second person to remove the balls while you do the pressing. Getting it back together without scratching the polished alloy or paint is great fun :)
 
Looking through some pictures for this thread i came across this.



anyone know what it is ? The age of my TV dates this a bit :) I had those wheels specially made to fit by CMA as the kit came with self destructing Speedlines. ( bit of a clue there "kit")



this was an engine i picked up for it, an early KZ1000...........what a mess !! soon fix that



Pull it to bits at the end of the bed in case you need a lie down....dont trip over that crankshaft in the dark ;)
Add a 1105cc Wiseco big bore forged piston kit and some choice goodies. and stick it back together



so what is it ? :)
 
Oh well done Paul :) Yea i think i could stand you pint for that ..

and here is the proof



and yes it did go through the door :-). The Dog was pleased to see it go as he always laid claim to the floor at the end of the bed.



This was my first ever build and it qualifies here because the front end was Marzocchi from a Darmah :) Well that's my excuse :)
 
Nice work on the wee Ducati how much change do you have from the £350 now........? :) Always had a soft spot for the look of the Harris chassis.
 
ducatipaddy said:
Thing is, only way you can do it is by pushing the lower alloy sleeve up and compressing the spring like that. You need to get it compressed enough to get the adjuster ring up at least 1". Problem is that alloy sleeve is only 1mm thick, you can crush it like a coke can in your hand if you are not careful. best bet if you are doing this at home is to place shock upside down so its standing on its top lug. Cut a hole in a piece of thick plywood so it goes over the adjuster but not the lower alloy sleeve then push down on the ply. Even so you will probably need a press or drill press and a second person to remove the balls while you do the pressing. Getting it back together without scratching the polished alloy or paint is great fun :)
Click to expand...

This is exactly how I did my 250 - clicky here for pictures
 
15 grand ...If only :-)
Thats got a 2002 plate on it yet has its original green logbook. strange but to be legal it will need a bloody great Yellow rear plate I wonder if its Spanish ? wrong front wheel , exhaust , seat etc.
I must continue the story here soon :-)
 
A couple more pics of the build...




home made wiring loom. Its always best to make your own look if you can as its easy to simplify it and reduce the risks of faults later. an example is the elite horn doesn't work on main beam......to stop noise at night...dont you just love Italians.
I kept it 6v for economic reasons !! by this point i was resenting every penny i spent on this build.
I'm afraid by the time i was quoted £90 for a choke lever when a similar item for a British bike is £10 i was starting to feel like a mug :) Needless to say the Elite has a British lever converted to a post type fitting like the Aprillia model.



The lever comes as a handle bar mount but you can cut that off and drill and tap the bottom, make a small collar for it to sit on and bolt the whole thing to the brake lever and save £80 :)
 
Last edited:
As this has turned intyo my past build thread here is another thats not quite ducati..



This was a wreck imported from Spain. it was so bad it was left as unsold for ever at Mdina Italia in the late 90s so i rescued it myself. The important parts were there which any Laverda man will tell you are the rear set footrests and the grab rail :) ok its not a lot but its stuff you cant get or couldn't then. I was horrified at how asthmatic and gutless these things are having believed the Legend for years. They don't go unless they are thrashed uncomfortably and they will put you in the hedge on a corner eventually.

This was the best bike i ever owned an no its not a Ducati....
Another one that lived at the end of the bed and apart from some wheels and forks was ready to go :confused:



This was an EXUP, i bought it with 6k miles on the clock but 6 years old !! and sold it with 90k miles on the clock. It took me everywhere, I would wake up on a sunny morning and go for a ride that would invariably be all day and 2-300 miles and when i got home i would still go the long way round town just to make the journey last a bit longer. i loved this bike and over 80k miles in 5 years and it never missed a beat.

Here she is in one piece and parked with my Harris at the time and she is already 10 years old there !!



1500 miles to a back tyre and 1000 miles to 3.5ltr of mobil1 divided by 84k miles but worth every penny.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom