1098 into 916 engine swap

thomp1983

thomp1983

New member
Last october i bought a 1098 engine from a track bike that was being broken, after getting it home i shoved it under a bench and left it whilst i finished a car project.

Saturday just gone finally saw the time for things to commence.



The unwitting victim of this swap, '98 916 biposto



A few of the bits needed, from l to r, new 1098 tps connector, 1098 stick coils, new injector connectors, eeprom from tomtom on ducati.ms allows the 1098 tps to work with the 916 injection setup. 1098 throttle bodies, 1098 airbox with velocity stacks and shower injectors.



Complete 1098 exhaust system





Now having never seen a 1098 engine before buying this one i hadn't realised i was missing a couple of important bits. The holes in both heads should have plastic outlets for the coolant hoses to attach to, the horizontal one also holds the coolant temperature sensor. The third hole towards the centre holds the crank position sensor.

I took a trip to see nelly at cornerspeed ducati, the 2 coolant outlets came to £32 and will be with me next monday. Unfortunately the cts and crank sensor were £65 and £80 at nearly £150 for the pair i didn't order them and sought other options. After digging around and a chat with derek it turns out the crank sensor from a fiat punto is the same so a trip to eurocarparts and £20 later i have a crank sensor sorted. Im going to use my 916 cts for the moment until i can source a reasonably priced alternative.

All parts sorted i set about removing the 916 lump



Stripdown was straightforward, the swingarm pivot bolt was a bit stubborn but eventually gave into my shortened sledgehammer, i will now need to check the swingarm bearings and bushes considering the hammering involved in removing the bolt.





Old vs. New

As most of you will know most ducati engines from 2000 on use m12 engine mounting bolts instead of the earlier m10 bolts so Monday saw me pick up a couple of correct size bolts, drilled the frame out to 12mm and the 1098 engine is now hung.

Ive trial fitted the throttle bodies and the linkage rod just touches the original coil mount so ill need to notch a piece out later.

I also cut out the floor of the 1098 airbox around where it mounts to the throttle bodies, tomorrow will see me cut the floor out of the 916 airbox and friday ill start to fibreglass the 2 together and hopefully by the end of the weekend ill have a complete airbox.

That's all for now hopefully ill have some more pictures tomorrow

Chris
 
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I look forward to seeing how this build progresses. If someone can post the numbers off the side of the 1098 coolant sensor I'm sure I can turn up an equivalent.
 
That's what I thought Bob but the part no is different so I wasn't sure. The one shown is the long nose WTS 05, the one fitted to the ST4s was a short nose WTS09. Either will fit.
They are the same as the same as the Fiat Punto 1.2 8V engine and probably loads of other Fiats.
Spec Sheet. Equivalents.
 
Thanks for the links derek, ill need to wait till i get the coolant outlet on monday and see if the 916 sensor fits in in depth wise.

This weekend's aim is a finished airbox and to cut and tack up the exhaust ready to send out for tig welding
 
well the weekend has been and gone and i haven't got as far as id hoped, a few issues became apparent and the airbox is alot more time consuming than id planned but things are progressing.



the bit marked in black is the piece that needs notching to allow the throttle body linkage to operate freely



that's the bottom of the 1098 airbox cut out leaving me with the velocity stacks and flat plastic between to fibreglass the 916 box too.



the stacks fitted to the throttle bodies



the stock 916 airbox before cutting



916 airbox after cutting showing how much needs fibreglassing to merge the two.

the fibreglass work has been tedious to say the least and has involved alot of laying down some fibreglass to make the two halves rigid then removing some of the first layers laid then replacing that with final more shaped pieces. adding more bracing pieces removing them etc. to get a workable shape, this coupled with constant trial fitting and having to wait 30 minutes drying time after laying each bit has made the job rather time consuming but i think im winning.



the underside



and fitted

ive also looked at the exhaust in between the airbox work



that's the 1098 link pipe fitted as you can see the angle of the exits are wrong for the 916 subframe



i also hadn't realised before i fished the 1098 parts out of the box that the 1098 uses a single link pipe with a y merge to the cans unlike the 916 which has seperate pipes for each cylinder

after some head scratching i took some action and ive cut the 1098 link pipe just below the flapper valve, a quick look on ebay and i found this and i cut the tops off a damaged 916 45/50mm link pipe i had. ill get the 916 tops welded to the outlets of the y piece then i just need to cut down the pipes on the cans so the y sits nicely under the subframe and then have a 54mm pipe bent to meet the original 1098 link pipe and the whole lot neatly welded up. i just need to bring myself to take a saw to my lovely remus cans.

one of these arrived it'll take the sensor for the dash water gauge and ill drill and tap it to take the fan switch sensor too, the sensor for the dash sheared off when i went to remove it today so ill have to sort a replacement for that now aswell (£52 from ducati, can't believe the sensors are so much)

received a call from nelly at cornerspeed to say these had arrived



i removed the 916 coolant temperature sensor



the one i have the flange to the end is about 22mm and is marked wts09. when fitted to the outlet housing it's nowhere near the bottom, it'll probably still work as the coolant will fill the housing but id prefer a longer sensor which i guess is the wts05 derek referred too.

that brings things upto date as they stand, ill keep plodding on with the airbox during the week and once that's done ill need to get the tape measure out and work out exactly where my exhaust cans need cutting to mate neatly with the y piece. those are the still the main two big things left beyond that the to do list is

plumb cooling system
source a fan that will fit with my airbox (1098/848 probably)
devise a way of mounting the injectors (pretty well covered on ducati.ms)
mount oil cooler
work out throttle linkage
make throttle/injectors wiring loom
swap fuel regulator for higher rated unit
work out mounting fairing v piece

and probably some other bits and pieces im forgetting
chris
 
finally finished laying up the overall shape of the airbox,







it needs some more strengthening in quite a few places and i need to layup over all the joints again but the final shape is there
 
well plodded on a bit more with this, airbox is now done and painted with black fibreglass top coat to seal it



still looks a bit untidy but it'll do the whole lots hidden anyway.

i run a power commander on the bike to allow it to be tuned on a rolling road, the pc is designed to fit an individual bikes injection system now as ive done away with the 916 throttle bodies ive also lost the plug the pc connects to, i could of just cut it off the 916 injection loom but as im selling the engine on i don't want to so i had to track down a replacement. i found one but ill be honest it pained me greatly to pay the £22.50 it cost for one bloody connector



the wiring for the tps and injectors connect up here i just need to make the loom at some point once ive mounted the injectors.

the other big job for the bike is the exhaust, i spoke earlier about wanting to use a prefabbed y piece but now ive actually looked at the job properly it's just not going to happen so ive had to set about hand making something.

after a large amount of fannying about looking at numerous options it was decided that with a bit of cutting the right side can would just about meet up with the exit from the 1098 link pipe, i could then y the left can into the right just after the bend under the subframe. this decided i ordered one of these reducers to go from the 57mm o/d 1098 link pipe to the 52mm o/d 916 pipe.

!B6PSEtg!mk~$(KGrHqJ,!igEyeHELBl8BMwwS(QP+!~~_35.JPG




the middle piece is the reducer ive cut it right down for my needs. the left is the end of the 916 exhaust can and the right is the top piece of the 916 link pipe. ill be honest i was very nervous about cutting my 916 cans, there not cheap to replace



used some duct tape to hold things together for now it goes 1098 link pipe, the small reducer piece, the end of the 916 can then obviously the 916 exhaust



this shows where the original 916 link pipe end will fit so the system is still removable in separate parts. (the exhaust can is slid right back in it's mount in the photo, i need to get the end swaged at my local exhaust place so it slots in the 916 link piece.) that lot will then need tacking together ready for my exhaust place to weld, that's the easy pipe the other can will just need one cut making then the end piece notching to merge into the other pipe which im not looking forward to ive got some spare pipe to practice getting the angles right on first.
 
Exhaust adaptors !!
had some made by the local car tuning company who make up car exhausts in S/S
was fitting a non standard box to my Jeep and needed dif size pipe to box (male to female)
did it while i waited about 5 mins
 
First half is finished and tacked together





I then cut the other can on it's straight part and marked it against the now tacked bend where i want both pipes to merge. I cut a toilet roll inner and taped it to the end of a pipe and used it to mark where i needed to cut the pipe to meet nicely.







I then transferred it to the pipe and started cutting it





It still needs some fettling with a die grinder but im happy it should work
 
id seen that over on ducati.ms it's a nice bit of kit but it's alot of money especially when you have to buy a 748r airbox aswell, i don't know if there's really a market for a proper solution.

today ive been doing the y piece on the exhaust, it's taken hours and been a right pain but i think it's finally there, i need to get the exhaust can expanded to fit the slip on piece ive made then i can do the last bits of tacking and then send it out to be welded up properly





 
sorry only more exhaust pictures to see, it's finally fully tacked up and ready to go for tig welding, to say ive never done anything like this before im very happy with the outcome







i did also have a quick look at the cooling system plumbing last night but i need to get some more hose and work a couple of bits out
 
I go on holiday the 17th of march so hoping it's done for then. The exhaust and airbox were the big jobs and there sorted the rest should be quite straightforward
 
When you put it like that it's 3 weekends, im at the isle of skye this weekend for valentines and away early march too but little and often will see it done.

It's probably one full weekend away from running, i can cross alot of the jobs off doing a couple of hours after work every day
 
picked my link pipe up from the welders,





it's not a bad job for £40, the welds need tidying up which isn't a problem as i need to remove all the brackets and spring holders that aren't used and make a couple of brackets to match the 916 frame.

ive also worked out the coolant system plumbing and ordered the hoses i need, next up will be mounting and wiring the injectors and tps
 
after a break away ive returned and done a few bits more, the extra coolant hoses and bits arrived so ive test fitted the coolant system, im just waiting on some mikalor clamps and that job will be finished.



i also had a couple of spacers made up at work and bought an offcut of 3mm aluminium sheet.



after some cutting, drilling and bashing ive got an injector mount





i need to source some longer bolts then ill drill the ends and fit split pins to make sure they can't come adrift and cause any damage as one in the intake would be fairly catastrophic
 
after a couple of suggestions on ducati.ms about the size of my injector brackets possibly being restrictive to the velocity stack i did some redesigning,











as you can see i finished my cooling system plumbing, it's not as neat as some but it should work ok



the 1098 doesn't have a earth point on the cases like the 916 does so i used this spare hole on the horizontal head, you can also see an amp waterproof connector i used these plugs for all my wiring.



i made a bracket to mount my injection plug where the stepper motor used to be.

that's about all i have pictures of as the majority of what ive done has just been running the wiring, fitting fuel lines etc. nothing much to photo.

i fitted tom's eeprom chip, reconnected the battery, turned the key and had nothing, no power, no lights sod all. after a bit of work with the multimeter i found a wire from the ignition barrel had come loose at a connecter, rewired the connector and power was restored. i then measured the tps readings at the ecu and the readings are only marginally out of spec so im leaving it for the minute.

that about covers where im at, suppose i should mention it runs :D started it just before posting this, it's currenty got no exhaust so my ears are still ringing. it is only running on the front cylinder though, there's no fuel to the vertical injector. im not worried it'll be something minor be it the fuel quick release not located fully or the fuel pipe kinked, or a pin not fully home in one of the wiring plugs ill sort it when i can get a spare pair of hands to hold the fuel tank for me.

chris
 
not much to show picture wise, but an update all the same

i discovered id kinked the rear fuel line so ive rerouted it and now have fuel fro both injectors but i did manage to knick the o ring on the fuel hose quick connector so can't start it again until i get a new one.

ive done the final fitting of my airbox and throttle bodies, ive adjusted the linkage so both valves are in sync and set the air screws to 2 turns out as a start point, i need to adjust it all up and sync it with a manometer once it's running.

i ordered one of these along with a BNS575 solderless nipple to make my throttle cable, i used the metal elbow off the 1098 cable and trimmmed the above kit to fit and have a fully working smooth throttle cable, i had to file the solderless nipple down to fit the groove in the throttle on the bar but it was only a small amount and it's brass so took very little fettling.

im not normally a fan of solderless nipples but the whole lot was less than £20 so a good cheap working solution, if the nipple does come loose at a later date then ill send to the cable to venhill and they'll fit me a proper soldered nipple but im confident in it.

i then looked at mounting the 916 oil cooler and v piece,



i cut up the brace for mounting the 1098 oil cooler, the left hand mount in the picture is the old 1098 right side with an m6 hole drilled and tapped into it i then screwed in an old 916 seat mount and ground it all down to the same size, this extended hanger allowed me to shift the oil cooler far enough to the left to line the v piece up properly. i just need to machine a spacer up for the right hand mount and it'll be finished.



v piece nicely lined up, to secure it im going to make 2 L brackets secured by the oil cooler brackets and fix it with 2 dzus fasteners. for now im going to fill the top recess with black mesh and come back to it later.

i also fitted the adjustable rearsets my girlfriend got me for christmas,





just need to get a dowel from work to secure the rear brake cylinder plunger as the original was riveted in, ill just use a dowel with some r clips to secure it.

so more or less it's there, i need to refit the exhaust, fill/bleed the cooling system, start the engine and sync/set it up then ive just a few bits of final assembly/setting up to do such as the rearsets, final exhaust brackets for whichever cover i go for etc. im going to miss my original deadline for finishing but it should be finished easter weekend all being well.
 
Thanks for the interest guys, in short no it's still not finished a few issues came up and the mrs doing her best to derail me with house hunting.

VP the chain lines up fine. The coil issue has finally been resolved i can't make them work properly with 2 fitted c'est la vie. Ive remounted the 916 coils for the minute but ive also got some denso stick coils coming to experiment with.

Whilst doing some minor syncing of the throttle bodies i noticed the alternative sensor i got for the temp gauge doesn't work so ive bit the bullet and bought a new genuine one, at the same time the upper coolant reservoir sprang a leak, fairly common issue this one is the original so im waiting on those parts.

Outside of those things ive finished my exhaust link pipe having added extra hook mounts for the springs and removing any brackets i didn't need. Ive the spacers for my v piece mounting bracket being made this week and that leaves me the chain to fit and rearsets to set up.

It's booked in at cornerspeed ducati may 15th for dynoing so it's close but it won't be going if i don't feel it's right, im not rushing it now ive missed my first deadline to find i then have to do more work a few weeks down the line
 
another update for this and it's been alot of win some lose some :comp2:

finally finished up and final mounted the 2 brackets for the v piece, feels like they've taken forever but im happy with the final result the v piece is now held in place by a pair of dzus fasteners the same as the side fairings so is easy to remove or replace.

i sourced and fitted some denso 12700-4800 stick coils along with cr10eix iridium plugs, with those fitted the bike fire up and revved freely but it was running very rich and producing numerous flames on the overrun



for now ive gone back to stock coils and plugs, the flames are reduced but still happen now and then, i suspect the iridium plugs aren't upto much so ive set about hunting for a set of copper plugs with a threaded connector, im hoping having it set up on a dyno and the tb's properly balanced and co set will solve the flames ill then have another look at the stick coils.

with the new temp sensor fitted i had a working temp gauge, i can confirm the up to date part number required is 55210442A. unfortunately i noticed the sensor was weeping slightly so i removed it fitted a small amount of ptfe tape and a new crush washer and i sheared it on refitting it that's 2 of the poxy things now :jerkoff:

as if that wasn't enough the second coolant tank i fitted split at 200 degrees aswell, this coolant system really doesn't want to do it's job, ill be ordering an alloy tank from the states tomorrow im really hoping they can get it to me in time for the dyno slot on friday or ill likely have to wait at least another 6 weeks for neil to have a slot.

whilst setting up the gearchange on my rearsets i wasn't happy with the clutch action so decided to pull the clutch basket apart and see what was going on,



that's the best of the friction plates, there supposed to be 2.8mm minimum the majority are nearly fully smooth so they'll need replacing fortunately the plates just need a light clean up.



and that's the bike as she stands now, ive the chain to finish fitting, the front sprocket is on im hoping to get an alloy coolant tank and clutch friction plates this week but besides those it's finished and hopefully ill make fridays dyno session else there's every chance i won't be riding it this season as were a couple of weeks away from getting the keys to our new house and that will be taking up all my spare time
 
Thought this is overdue an update, after a few schedule clashes and an impromptu coolant leak upon arrival the bike made it to cornerspeed ducati to be setup on the dyno.

Sadly neil rang Monday to say a few runs into the dyno session it locked up the rear wheel and was ejecting lovely fresh motul oil from down near the starter motor so it looks like some things let go in the bottom end.

Ive not had chance to go see it yet as ive alot of other stuff on but my first thoughts are being i know it's an ex track engine that it's been down at some point and left running and starved the rods of oil and one has now let go albeit there were no unusual noises beforehand.

As im currently going through a house purchase and have a couple of car projects to finish before the move this will now likely be shelved until the winter but the 30 miles post swap i managed were definitely worth it!
 
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