Should it be illegal to ride without the correct gear on?

rockjock620

New member
"Helmets, 250cc restriction for learners, reduced to 125cc later, CBT; noise regulations, closing of green roads,and more recently bhp limits after passing the test. Many of which had the effect of helping to destroying the British motorcycle industry. Not quite as much as the Japanese though, they reacted to legislative change and built the bikes the learners needed."



Don't really think so Charlie! The Great British Motorcycling Industry just disappeared up it's own bottom by refusing to recognise; electric starters, indicators, colours other than black, oil leaks, rattles, vibrations, more than two cylinders, alternators, decent bushings, proper suspension, crap lighting, pre-war dated styling, (for the youngsters on here that's WWII, the big one, not Vietnam:D ), round wheels, etc, etc, etc, etc. It had bugger all to do with helmets or CC limits. I too was there...........
 

MAC

New member
rockjock620 said:
"Helmets, 250cc restriction for learners, reduced to 125cc later, CBT; noise regulations, closing of green roads,and more recently bhp limits after passing the test. Many of which had the effect of helping to destroying the British motorcycle industry. Not quite as much as the Japanese though, they reacted to legislative change and built the bikes the learners needed."



Don't really think so Charlie! The Great British Motorcycling Industry just disappeared up it's own bottom by refusing to recognise; electric starters, indicators, colours other than black, oil leaks, rattles, vibrations, more than two cylinders, alternators, decent bushings, proper suspension, crap lighting, pre-war dated styling, (for the youngsters on here that's WWII, the big one, not Vietnam:D ), round wheels, etc, etc, etc, etc. It had bugger all to do with helmets or CC limits. I too was there...........
Quite right Pete - I was there - Oh how the manufacturers laughed at the Japanese efforts in the late 50's!!

They're not laughing now!!
 

gordj65

New member
MAC said:
Quite right Pete - I was there - Oh how the manufacturers laughed at the Japanese efforts in the late 50's!!

They're not laughing now!!
i dont think it was really the japanese that killed the brittish motorcycle industry. i think it was the italians with their scooters.when you consider that the scooters had taken 150,000 sales a year from the bikes they had got people into the mindset of clean transport, warranties that didnt mean 4 weeks of the road while the parts were sent back to the factory for investigation,and decent higher purchase schemes, so that when the japanese challenge came along, the manufacturers had already lost their base customers. that and the fact brittish manufacturers still had the mindset of the brittish in singapore pre 1941.
but this is only my opinion
 

Fergie

New member
to take the thread back to subject, this is about making proper gear a legal requirement, or not.

As far as the various British firms that have gone tits over the years, it is usually down to poor management and militant workers. Or both.

As far as the Japanese go, they have the outlook that if you are going to do something, do it right, first time, efficiently, faster and better than everyone else. And they also learn from their mistakes. Something the British rarely do1
 

gordj65

New member
fergie said:
to take the thread back to subject, this is about making proper gear a legal requirement, or not.

As far as the various British firms that have gone tits over the years, it is usually down to poor management and militant workers. Or both.

As far as the Japanese go, they have the outlook that if you are going to do something, do it right, first time, efficiently, faster and better than everyone else. And they also learn from their mistakes. Something the British rarely do1
i never learn from my mistakes, thats how im the asshole i am ;)
 

rockjock620

New member
Fergie, why spoil a good discussion by going back to the thread? It wasn't me who dragged it off topic anyway :)

Gord, if I recall correctly there was never any chance ever of tempting us bikers onto those fecking scooter things - war was fought between the groups. I, like Mac, was there. It was, as Fergie points out, due to bad management (which resulted in the catalogue of dismay I pointed out earlier) that effectively started to kill off British manufacturers. Japanese determination, intransigence, sound work ethic and imagination were what helped it happen in the final instance.

Fergie, compulsion shouldn't be the way to go, re the correct gear, but as mentioned by others some sort of contributory negligence should be applied to those who don't use it when the hospital bills start to build up. But then, is that effectively means testing the :)) ) "National Health Service"? Aren't we all entitled to the same level of care, regardless? A bigger can of worms than we can handle here..............
 

MAC

New member
OK Pete, Back to the thread(ish) Once we start charging/means testing do we charge fell-walkers/cragrats for being lost/stuck/injured on't fells, mountain bikers who crash etc.. it's almost like women who wear short skirts and are subject to sexual assaults/rape are to quote a 'learned judge' "Asking for it." As you say - a 'can of worms indeed.'

Can't resist this though in relation to't Japs - the reference to those 'scooter things' was a Rhoda! - Rhoda Borrocks (best enunciated with a Japanese accent)
 

Yellowbelly

New member
Just my 10p worth on the wanderings of this thread,

As a Motorcyclist I must support freedom of choice, But

I Always ride in full leathers whether it be frosty weather on the XL185 in england in winter or 35+degrees on the SPS in the south of france in july.
Did the gravel rash thing once, fortunately in a small way, but never again!

Horses, should be in fields and green lanes in England, and on the Barbeque in France.
Horse riders - why do they not do a CBT and a two part competence test?

Cycle helmets, I'm a boring old fart who always wears one now.
Lying on a country lane unconscious till someone comes along is also on my list of never agains. Concussion was more painful than the broken bones.

Merry Xmas

Steve
 

Fergie

New member
Well put Steve.
I agree on the horse bit. Maybe not the BBQ though!

I personally think that anything using the roads should be taxed and insured. Bikes included.

The right gear is one that will go on and on. I always have the full kit on and cannot see the point of not wearing it all. There will always be someone who wants to rebel against something.

Happy Christmas everybody!!:santagrin:
 

Fergie

New member
Well. That was quite a week. Just back from 6 days in Stirling and Edinburgh Royal after a small but eventful trip down the road a week past Sunday.

After a great run with Scottch and Borderduc and a few others I peeled off to head home and hit a very small, but very slippy diesel spill on a roundabout in Edinburgh. High sided and came down very hard. Broke a rib, cracked another, crushed shoulder and a few other minor internals. They kept me in a bit longer because they reckoned I had a clot somewhere.

It does bring this old chestnut up again. I had the full gear including back protector and hard armour on as usual. It all worked brilliantly (until the Paramedics cut it all off!) and there is no doubt that had I not been wearing it the damage would have been a lot worse.

Luckily there were no other cars involved and this definately limited the damage, but that was just blind luck. On any other day things could have been a lot different.

So, as always just remember that no matter how safe you are or how well you ride, neither has any bearing on another road user ruining your day, and as your mother would say if you are going out, DRESS ACCORDINGLY!
 

weeian

New member
Aww fergie !

hope your feeling better m8, what were u riding at the time ? hopefully not the Xerox ??!!?? :(

ive just bidded on a back protector incidentally. . . .

/ian
 

Fergie

New member
Aww fergie !

hope your feeling better m8, what were u riding at the time ? hopefully not the Xerox ??!!?? :(

ive just bidded on a back protector incidentally. . . .

/ian

Thankfully it was the HP2, and it just bounced! Unfortunately off me!

Virtually no damage at all and the money PPP pay me to suffer the NHS rather than one of their 5 Star places will pay to fix it!

As for the back protector, just remember they are 'one fall' only like a helmet. And Knox do a new for old if you are in a bump and the Police attend, so I would go on the web and get a new one. Just in case the seller has been 'off'.

You'll get them under Planet.Knox.something or other!
 

jonny ducati

New member
f**kin deisel!

Sorry hear about you're off ian,
Hope u r okay and make a full recovery!
Had a similiar incident on the gsxr a few years back,hit a patch of diesel at bowtrees roundabout,back end went, then grippped,sending me what felt like a couple of feet on the air(probably 1ft).
luckily came back down on the seat and one peg.
s**t meself but got of lightly,
SO HOPE YOU,RE FEELING OKAY.
And get out on the bike or bikes as soon as pos!
 

Desmodog

New member
Question is should full kit (helmet, jacket, gloves, trousers, boots) be mandatory when out on the road?

YES, and I think we should also ban swimming pools, because, well someone could drown in there and there's really no need to swim these days, we've got boats.

Now I'm off to grind the edges off the kitchen knives.

Christ!
 

gordj65

New member
ive thought about this and have decided it should be law to wear all the kit. And whats more it should all have to be bought from me, did i say i have a bike clothing shop. gordons easy payment plan, one payment up front take it away whenever you want
 

dseered

New member
As for the back protector, just remember they are 'one fall' only like a helmet. And Knox do a new for old if you are in a bump and the Police attend, so I would go on the web and get a new one. Just in case the seller has been 'off'.

You'll get them under Planet.Knox.something or other!

Here ya go - www.planet-knox.com - very nice people at the factory, based in Cockermouth, Cumbria. I have just got my chest protector to go with the Knox Contour back protector from them for the race season ahead, never tested by me but very comfy.
 

Grahame

New member
Freedom of choice for me...I fell off on a roundabout in winter...fully kitted up and twisted my back summat chronic...cost me a fair bit in osteopath's fees as national elf wasnt coughing up....but still go out in jeans sometimes....still dead twitchy at that roundabout when it's raining tho :D
 

Gaz

New member
Up at the 'Wellie on Sunday I was amazed at the number of riders (and even more pillions) with little or no protective clothing apart from a helmet. It is incredible how many riders are kitted to the hilt and the pillion has jeans and trainers on. Usually the girlfriend. And sometimes a child.

Point is that we are all paying for the healthcare and recuperation, sick pay, insurance costs and the bad reputation that bikers have in general.

Question is should full kit (helmet, jacket, gloves, trousers, boots) be mandatory when out on the road?


Ok, if that's how you feel why stop there. Lets limit horse power and top speeds and save us from ourselves? If you feel you need all that protection everytime you go out on your bike then that's fine, just dont "force" me to do the same just to make you feel comfortable. I have to admit to riding about in the hot summer days in jeans and t shirt but I change my riding style and attitude to suit. I wouldn't go racing about putting myself at greater risk dressed like that though.

It should all be about freedom of choice...in ALL aspects of our lives. There's little enough fun left in everyday life these days without encouraging the law makers to impose even more restrictions on us.
 

Gizmo

Forum Geek
Ok, if that's how you feel why stop there. Lets limit horse power and top speeds and save us from ourselves? If you feel you need all that protection everytime you go out on your bike then that's fine, just dont "force" me to do the same just to make you feel comfortable. I have to admit to riding about in the hot summer days in jeans and t shirt but I change my riding style and attitude to suit. I wouldn't go racing about putting myself at greater risk dressed like that though.

It should all be about freedom of choice...in ALL aspects of our lives. There's little enough fun left in everyday life these days without encouraging the law makers to impose even more restrictions on us.

I'll play Devils Advocate, if we accept you have freedom of choice to take whatever risks you choose is it right for the rest of society to pick up the bill should you end up badly injured? One could argue that its not and that the NHS healthcare should cover the sick and needy not those who take voluntary risks.

If this were the case would you be prepared to pay for private health insurance to cover motor biking ? and if you did would you expect the insurer to request that you wear protective clothing all the time or pay a higher premium if you decide not to as the potential injuries/claims are greater?

there isn't a need for governments to legislate anything these days, they can simply pass it to the private sector.....
 

mbg

New member
I'll play Devils Advocate, if we accept you have freedom of choice to take whatever risks you choose is it right for the rest of society to pick up the bill should you end up badly injured? One could argue that its not and that the NHS healthcare should cover the sick and needy not those who take voluntary risks.

If this were the case would you be prepared to pay for private health insurance to cover motor biking ? and if you did would you expect the insurer to request that you wear protective clothing all the time or pay a higher premium if you decide not to as the potential injuries/claims are greater?

there isn't a need for governments to legislate anything these days, they can simply pass it to the private sector.....

Long slippery slope. The above could also apply to anyone who is injured whilst taking part in any sport/activity without wearing the recommended protective gear. It could also apply to those who damage their health by over-eating, smoking, abusing substances, self-harming, etc,etc,etc.... The list just goes on and on. :confused:
 

Chiz

Elite Member
Subscriber
All down to personal choice

It should all be down to personal choice.
I personally feel really twitchy & uncomfortable going out on the bike anywhere without my leathers on.
It is a struggle sometimes to get the leathers on to nip 1 mile down the road to pick up the papers, but I would rather do that than wake up in hospital with someone trying to scrap the A90 out of my butt with a brush & detol.

I work in an industry that it is "MANDATORY" that full P.P.E. is worn before exiting the door onto the platforms deck. This includes Hard Hat, coveralls, hearing protection, safety glasses & appropriate gloves for the task.
If working at height (ABOVE 1mtr) then safety harnesses & inertia reels must be worn.

When these rules were rolled out over the last 15 year they were all Poo,Pooed as a .f.....en waste of time, akward to work in. Glasses steam up & unusable etc etc.

But now we just take it as a given & get on with it.

I know I shoot myself in the foot by stating I work in an industry that shows that by introducing these safety regulations it has cut down inccidents/accidents dramatically, but you really need to draw the line somewhere.
I would still like to be given a choice sometime where it is up to ME to decide what I wear.

I cannot go through life following rules day in day out.

I know I make the right choice by doning my leathers when I get on the bike, but it is just the thought of ending up in causulty that makes me do it.

Right I better get off this soapbox as I am not wearing an safety harness & reel.:D :D
 

Gizmo

Forum Geek
Long slippery slope. The above could also apply to anyone who is injured whilst taking part in any sport/activity without wearing the recommended protective gear. It could also apply to those who damage their health by over-eating, smoking, abusing substances, self-harming, etc,etc,etc.... The list just goes on and on. :confused:

its already started Mary, some health areas refuse to carry out treatment on smokers or those over weight unless they change their habits, the recent KIM mountaineering event got flak because of the cost to local rescue services, there was a move to get organisers to pay for the rescue even though it was just folk using fells they could have been walking on. Its quite easy to see that other risky sports could move the same way and that healthcare increases the number of things it can't cover without seeing action from those who are "damaging" themselves. I'll not comment on whether i agree or disagree but there is a real possibility that there will be restrictions on what the NHS does and doesn't supply as we use more and more tax to prop up our economy.
 

Derek

Elite Member
Subscriber
And while we are talking about protecting us from ourselves. How many of you are aware that Warwickshire Council has put a blanket 50mph on all roads which neither motorways nor dual carriageways - on health and safety grounds! There is a distinct possibility that this could be applied nationally!
 

mbg

New member
I worked for a company in the 80's who provided private insurance. I was asked to reconsider my hobbies which at that time were squash, water ski-ing and motorcycling as my premiums were twice that of other employees.:eek:

What amazed me was that water ski-ing was deemed higher risk than biking.:confused:

There was no mention of safety measures whatsoever.
 
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