RTL 07 + Mad March Meet

dseered said:
As the person that actually started the event I would be keen to know what RJ is planning, it started with a thread on the DSC, as I am sure you remember Bradders - I then met Gizmo at Ducati Leeds and with his and Linzi's help RTL '05 was born, RTL '06 was bigger and beeter and alot better organised in the hands of Mike and Linzi, also Freak and Lily with very little input from myself, a fairly traumatic year and health scare to blame. It is an event very close to my heart that yet again I can't give an awful lot of commitment to with racing this year - it would however have been nice to have been consulted :mad:

Yes I have PM'ed him, yes he has been on-line since, no I have not had a reply. :rolleyes:
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Woah, there young man, what’s got into you? Get things into perspective will you? There was so much negativity about this whole event right through from almost the first posting by Mike, just about. You have always bracketed all your comments with the provisos – “if I’m here”; “if it doesn’t clash with race dates”; “I didn’t do much last year and feel I need to get involved more, but I’m very busy”; and the rest. Not reassuring to anyone.

Now, I’m not sure if anyone “owns” an event on here, but I seriously doubt it. I have no idea of the pre-history of RTL, but it was a good event and should continue. However the two main protagonists as far as I were aware, yourself and Mike, were both unable to do anything about ’07, that was publicly declared! I sat and thought about this last night and sent Mike a PM, offering to organise it myself, completely, unequivocally, totally. Thinking it was an event that people cared about. I can organise stuff like this standing on my head, it’s no big deal. This morning I received a PM from A.N. Other who saw I had contacted Mike and second guessed what I was thinking. He called me, we had a chat, discovered we were thinking on the exact same lines. We decided to contact some other members to chat about it and get a small meet together soon to discuss the project, possibly at Whoop Hall, possibly at Devil’s, possibly at Glenridding and do some spade work.

Reading the various comments on the RTL thread I thought, perhaps incorrectly, that I ought to forestall some people’s reactions to the cancellation of RTL – because that is what had just happened – and give them a bit of hope that this great event would continue. We were never going “secret”, we wanted to discuss options and we didn’t want people booking up other stuff if they didn’t have to!

The initial response to the fact that it was “on again” had three very enthusiastic postings.

Now I read this @@@@ing public rant and squeal from you, and I DID read your PM the instant it arrived. I chose to ignore it for fear of my initial reaction, which would have been very strong to say the least, and possibly upsetting the apple cart and allowed myself to compose a reasonable response, something you seem to be incapable of doing. Now, I am sorry if you are upset, but I might have expected a bit of thanks and /or support, rather than a public slapping. You have my cell phone number; you could have called me? Mike has had the one PM from me and his reaction was a “thank you”.

I await your comments, and anyone else for that matter. I was going to send this as a PM, but I feel it needs opening out more. I am not going to get into a slanging match over this, I have heard about the infamous DSC and the in-fighting on there, let’s not go down that route FFS!

You’re @@@@ing fuming?
 
rockjock620 said:
Woah, there young man, what’s got into you? Get things into perspective will you? There was so much negativity about this whole event right through from almost the first posting by Mike, just about. You have always bracketed all your comments with the provisos – “if I’m here”; “if it doesn’t clash with race dates”; “I didn’t do much last year and feel I need to get involved more, but I’m very busy”; and the rest. Not reassuring to anyone.

Now, I’m not sure if anyone “owns” an event on here, but I seriously doubt it. I have no idea of the pre-history of RTL, but it was a good event and should continue. However the two main protagonists as far as I were aware, yourself and Mike, were both unable to do anything about ’07, that was publicly declared! I sat and thought about this last night and sent Mike a PM, offering to organise it myself, completely, unequivocally, totally. Thinking it was an event that people cared about. I can organise stuff like this standing on my head, it’s no big deal. This morning I received a PM from A.N. Other who saw I had contacted Mike and second guessed what I was thinking. He called me, we had a chat, discovered we were thinking on the exact same lines. We decided to contact some other members to chat about it and get a small meet together soon to discuss the project, possibly at Whoop Hall, possibly at Devil’s, possibly at Glenridding and do some spade work.

Reading the various comments on the RTL thread I thought, perhaps incorrectly, that I ought to forestall some people’s reactions to the cancellation of RTL – because that is what had just happened – and give them a bit of hope that this great event would continue. We were never going “secret”, we wanted to discuss options and we didn’t want people booking up other stuff if they didn’t have to!

The initial response to the fact that it was “on again” had three very enthusiastic postings.

Now I read this @@@@ing public rant and squeal from you, and I DID read your PM the instant it arrived. I chose to ignore it for fear of my initial reaction, which would have been very strong to say the least, and possibly upsetting the apple cart and allowed myself to compose a reasonable response, something you seem to be incapable of doing. Now, I am sorry if you are upset, but I might have expected a bit of thanks and /or support, rather than a public slapping. You have my cell phone number; you could have called me? Mike has had the one PM from me and his reaction was a “thank you”.

I await your comments, and anyone else for that matter. I was going to send this as a PM, but I feel it needs opening out more. I am not going to get into a slanging match over this, I have heard about the infamous DSC and the in-fighting on there, let’s not go down that route FFS!

You’re @@@@ing fuming?
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LOL, rant and squeal - OK whatever, good luck to you fella, as I say, it would have been nice to have been consulted. No one OWNS the event as you say, I also said that Mike, Linzi, Freak and Lily did a much better job of it, in fact I actually said Beeter job. You go ahead.
 
Organising any event (and I've done a few) is far more time consuming than people who have not done so realise and we can all take for granted, perhaps unconsciously, the work that goes into it. Generally it is easier after the initial event as many of the pitfalls become apparent after year one and they can be "planned out" in year two etc. Because year two was bigger etc than year one may be down to momentum from year one rather who organised it. As someone sitting on the outside my view is that thanks go to those that started it, those that picked up the baton in year two and best wishes to whoever feels public spirited to take it on at short notice in year three. It would be good if anyone who has past experience of the event lends whatever support they can to anyone new to it to help ensure the continued success for ALL to enjoy. The majority should be grateful to the minority that do all the hard work that goes into an event. I don't believe any snub was intended by the offer and it should be viewed as a compliment that some people think enough of the event that they are so keen to see it continue. For us lazy majority kiss and make up! (If you do so literally we DON'T want to see the photos!!..;) )
 
239desmo said:
Organising any event (and I've done a few) is far more time consuming than people who have not done so realise and we can all take for granted, perhaps unconsciously, the work that goes into it. Generally it is easier after the initial event as many of the pitfalls become apparent after year one and they can be "planned out" in year two etc. Because year two was bigger etc than year one may be down to momentum from year one rather who organised it. As someone sitting on the outside my view is that thanks go to those that started it, those that picked up the baton in year two and best wishes to whoever feels public spirited to take it on at short notice in year three. It would be good if anyone who has past experience of the event lends whatever support they can to anyone new to it to help ensure the continued success for ALL to enjoy. The majority should be grateful to the minority that do all the hard work that goes into an event. I don't believe any snub was intended by the offer and it should be viewed as a compliment that some people think enough of the event that they are so keen to see it continue. For us lazy majority kiss and make up! (If you do so literally we DON'T want to see the photos!!..;) )
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I agree with every word :)
 
Oh dear! not been near my pc for quite a few hours now and return to find this? Before I go any further I will say that I am the A.N. Other that Pete Rockjock mentions. I wasnt doing anything sneaky in talking to Pete re RTL 2007 in fact I have had a few coversations about RTL 07 with other members over the last few months.

Without harping on too much I will try and convey my thoughts about the whole subject. In mine and as far as I know every other attendees opinion of both previous RTLs were they were a great success and enjoyed and appreciated very much indeed.

There has been a good bit of discussion here about this years event and possible dates etc, as time has gone on it has become apparent that the event looked as if it was not going to happen at all. It was only a few days ago in a conversation with a Dun regular that I expressed my concerns that with things the way they were I was going to call Michael and discuss the options with him. By the way I had decided to do this before the posts on Monday saying RTL wouldnt be going ahead. It got too late to call Michael and I then noticed that Pete had send Mike a PM so I made a brief phone call to Pete about what could be done to save the event.

Pete informed me that he had chatted to Michael about the event and that he had no problem with someone else doing all the hard work, I spoke to Michael on Tuesday as I thought it was only right to do so before going ahead with any announcements etc. I already appreciate just how much effort he and Linzi put into RTL and I now also know just how busy he is with work etc, I am also conscious that I was unable to help out as much as I originally intended last year. I do not think its a bad thing to help lift most of the burden off Michael and Linzis shoulders.

Anyone who attended either event knows what a great weekend was had, to me it would be a crying shame if the event was not repeated in one form or another every year. Really this whole thing is about people getting together and socialising and riding their bikes, I have met some great people over the last 2 events and made a few friends. The opportunity to do the same again really is too good to miss.

I do think if RTL is to go ahead something must be done about it sooner rather than later. If you look in the DuN calender it is cram packed full of events for which dates have already been set. To me and I'm sure most others having plenty of notice of an event makes all the difference in that other things such as family holiday etc can be planned much easier. Its inevitable that whatever date is chosen will not suit everybody as that would be impossible. Its goes without saying that every effort would be made to not clash with DD or Donny Motogp or too closely to WDW.

Ian, I am sorry if you feel that anyone is trying to take what was your original idea away from you, that really isnt the case. I had fully intended to give you a call before posting anything on this matter. It has got too late tonight and I am sat here with a bad headache so maybe tommorow? Neither myself or Pete would be trying to take it on if it wasnt for the fact that you or Michael were unable to. I am aware that much of the hard work has already been done in the previous years RTLs and we would not quite be starting from scratch. Maybe not as many will turn up as the 60 odd from last year but that does not really matter as I think as long as you have a few riders wanting to go for a ride its a success.
 
Cheers Martin, I wish you all every success, sorry if I have rocked the boat with anyone - yes, I am @@@@ed off that I wasn't asked my thoughts though.

Toys last night were along way from the pram, they are a little bit closer to it today, by using the reference to a pram I am pre-empting all the 'cry baby' comments yet to come.
 
dseered said:
Cheers Martin, I wish you all every success, sorry if I have rocked the boat with anyone - yes, I am @@@@ed off that I wasn't asked my thoughts though.

Toys last night were along way from the pram, they are a little bit closer to it today, by using the reference to a pram I am pre-empting all the 'cry baby' comments yet to come.
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Oi! Cry Baby :p

For the record Martin called me (the regular DuN poster to discuss also) DuN kind of emerged from RTL or at least went along way to get the thing off the ground in my eyes.

Michael has said he hasn't got the time to organise the event on his own, and I read that as can someone else organise it and I'll help with what I can, and people who care have already got the ball rolling, that's absolutely amazing in my eyes, no one else has put their hand up to offer to organise/run the event so I want to thank the guys involved so far for at least trying to get this thing up and running.

What upsets me though Ian is you're p*ssed off???? why? Last year you gave up road riding, and now you're back on the road, but you're racing in DD so more than likely you won't be attending RTL anyways as the last two years have clashed with a DD round, I certainly hope you will be there as we always have a good laugh but you seem to have some axe to grind over it??

Even the few comments since Pete's post yesterday have been positive which shows how important RTL is to "everyone", as Martin has said and on the phone to me we've both got holidays to plan and once we get something solid around RTL we'll plan our holidays around that, it's that important an event that we plan our time around it.

I'm sure most people on here who have been to RTL will want to do so again, and the one's that haven't know about it and wanted to attend in 2007 so it has to happen.

I've already offered to help in whatever capacity I can whether that be simply sorting maps/routes for people or meeting people enroute and riding up to the lakes etc it's all up in the air currently.

On a lighter note:-

When are we going out for a blast I want to see how quick this Multi is :D
 
well, I hope it proceeds, whoever organises it. And am already looking forward to the 300 mile trip just to get there......
 
Well the ride out is already sorted if you use the same route we went on last year, same stops, fuelling and lunch. It went well last year and so there is no need to change it. There might be a few who have been that route before but the majority won't know it. Tony James has had nearly the same rideout route for the Merlin every year since it's inception '99 and when he suggested changing it there were more for keeping it as it is than changing it.
If it ain't broke............
 
The route of the previous 2 years RTL was a good one and very nice etc, but there has been discussion about having 2 routes one of which does not really include much of the actual Lakes at all. The other route would be going over to Hartside / Alston / perhaps up through Kielder / Hexham / Alston to Middleton In Teesdale / Brough / Kirkby Stephen / Sedburgh / Devils bridge etc. When speaking to a number of riders at last years event a number of them expressed that they would have preferred to have gone on a better riding route with less traffic etc. There are of course others who prefer to do the lakes route and are not bothered at the more sedate (for want of a better word) lakes loop. I think its a shame for anyone travelling up (especially from the south) no to be able to sample some of the best riding roads in the country! Us northerners are always harping on about how we have all the best roads and then take the visitors form Glenridding past Windemere to Newby Bridge etc at a snails pace because of the traffic and caravans etc. There are some good riding sections on the previous runs but for me there are too many dull bits. Although I do look forward to sitting outside that pub on the beach at Ravenglass again.

If you remember last year a good amount of riders especially those who had travelled the furtherst did not really bother with the Sunday ride. Its being considered to have 2 routes one being the Lakes loop and the other more sporting route mentioned above. At the moment I am unsure whether it would be better to run 2 groups doing the different routes at the same time. Or as in previous years a different day for each route. The plus point of having them both run on the same day are having less bikes together at once making fuel and lunch stops more efficent. Also general progress being brisker without a massive number of riders spread out for miles stuck in traffic etc. Another plus point is that anyone attending for just one of the days has the choice of Lakes or Hartside/Kielder rideout etc. The possible downside of this is the possibility of having 90% of the riders in one group and only 10% in the other. I could imagine it being hard work with many only deciding on the day which route they are riding.

Many things to think about yet and plenty of ideas being passed around. A date has not been set yet but its looking like its going to be either 16/17 June or 14/15 July. Its going to clash with something somewhere for somebody but its impossible for it not to.

If anyone has any ideas or suggestions please feel free to post them.
 
From my experience of event organising offering choice is a recipe for disaster, everything needs to be clearly defined or it will fall apart. Groups got split up and went the wrong way on a route that was known to people, groups got joined together when there was an option of what to do.

IMHO the old adage KISS applies, most of the people attending just want a good social, a bit of a ride and a chance to meet their buddies. RTL has been one of the most successful northern events because of this not because of the riding and I'd think most peoples memories are of the stop at ravenglass , the views or the evenings fun at the bar.

As Stuart says its easier to do things a second time around so more people know the routes, and can lead, more people know where the food and petrol are, more people know where it starts and finishes etc etc.

I'd suggest that the format and routes are kept the same but add in an extra route for the Friday or Sunday nights if people really do want more but i think its better to provide a well organised event where its about meeting people and enjoying each others company rather than purely riding, there are plenty of other events to do that and IMHO a weekend with 60 or 70 other bikes probably isn't the place to do it.

thats my twopenneth worth, big thanks to Pete and Martin for trying to make this happen anyway :)
 
After a long conversation with MartinH tonight I am alot happier, we will be conversing alot more about this and a happy outcome should result ;)
 
On the dates thing, me and Linzi won't be around to help out 14/15 July as its the VMCC festival and we'll be there. its also 1 week before the DOC northern rally, when i looked at this 2 or 15 June seemed the best options but i haven't checked with the hotel.
 
dseered said:
LOL, rant and squeal - OK whatever, good luck to you fella, as I say, it would have been nice to have been consulted. No one OWNS the event as you say, I also said that Mike, Linzi, Freak and Lily did a much better job of it, in fact I actually said Beeter job. You go ahead.
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thanks for the support
 
Eastenders

Bugger , everyones friends again , it was getting more exciting than Eastenders. :(
 
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Rtl !!

Dear oh Dear - Can't we just get on and enjoy what we're supposed to be doing:confused: Enjoying't bikes and Camararderie etc - nobody died :mad:

Big up for RJ - Martin et al;)
 
rockjock620 said:
well boring I'm afraid
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Pete, with respect that comment flies in the face of the people that have organised the event for the last 2 years, I am not spoiling for a fight, I would be interested in your thoughts as to how to improve on the route that has been used, although with slight variation for the last 2 years ?
 
Ian, look at the bigger picture - variety is the spice of life and you need to engender change or it all gets stale. I wasn't meaning the ride itself was boring, but that doing it all again is. There are some blinding sections on the ride we did, but there are many others in the immediate vicinity too, more suited to great biking. It's full of traffic in the summer, doesn't actually get to the best viewpoints if people want to see the Lakes anyway and there are many better roads around the area - as Martin as already mentioned - the real biking roads! :D

If I were travelling a long way to get to an event in an unfamiliar area I would not want to repeat the same ride the next year. I have done the Midgie Masher twice now (consecutive years), both were different, both were great. The Dalesman's Dash will be different this year to last year - no less enjoyable, but covering different roads. I know you didn't do any of these, but speaking to those who did, all enjoyed the variety. You'll see when you get out with us :D Give it a go.

Andy - keep watching - it might liven up again :D
 
rockjock620 said:
Ian, look at the bigger picture - variety is the spice of life and you need to engender change or it all gets stale. I wasn't meaning the ride itself was boring, but that doing it all again is. There are some blinding sections on the ride we did, but there are many others in the immediate vicinity too, more suited to great biking. It's full of traffic in the summer, doesn't actually get to the best viewpoints if people want to see the Lakes anyway and there are many better roads around the area - as Martin as already mentioned - the real biking roads! :D

If I were travelling a long way to get to an event in an unfamiliar area I would not want to repeat the same ride the next year. I have done the Midgie Masher twice now (consecutive years), both were different, both were great. The Dalesman's Dash will be different this year to last year - no less enjoyable, but covering different roads. I know you didn't do any of these, but speaking to those who did, all enjoyed the variety. You'll see when you get out with us :D Give it a go.

Andy - keep watching - it might liven up again :D
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Pete, if that is the case then i'd prefer it that it isn't called RTL, give it another name whatever. Boring it may be but each year we attract new people who haven't done it and as i said in my post a few above its about the people and craic not the riding, leave that for days with fewer attendees, geting 60 bikes possibly more around any route is difficult enough. I can see where Ian is coming from with his comments and I'd prefer that RTL is kept to its original concept even if it means we only run it in years where there is no WDW. the concept of picking a good hotel, in a stunning location with a little bit more style than yer average motorbike rally atmosphere is unique and the reason most people enjoy RTL, it would be stupid to change it from that.
 
Yep, with Mikey the RTL format has been done over 2 years, it has evolved and improved, year 1 27 Ducatis, year 2 47 Ductais, now I am not sure about absolute fact however I would say that is probably the biggest Ducati event of its kind in the UK.

Year 1 Mike and I were falling out over the route all the time, we road it countless times and fine tuned it until it worked !

Pete you may find it boring, I noticed that when you took off on the recce run, RTL is not about doing 150 everywhere, its about the craic, its about the people and its showing poeple my back yard the route as it stands is as good as it gonna get in my eyes while the event is called Raid the Lakes, inherently the Lake District will bring traffic problems, they are not huge problems though and after most slow sections there is a re-group section.

People are encouraged to go at there own pace and not feel pressured, clear riders breifing to re-inforce this. Raid the Lakes is about safety aswel.

Trust me, that route works for many valid reasons.
 
I didn't, once again, say the ROUTE is boring! It seems a shame to just repeat it. Regards the recce run and RTL itself, there were a lot of people who really enjoyed the riding and said so to me. It shows the ride is good, but there is more to go at. Surely that can't be disputed? Even within the Lake District there are other possibilities. Yes, It might be a good idea to rename it. Or place it in May or September to avoid WDW anyway, then continuity will ensue without too much hassle. Are you coming anyway?
 
rockjock620 said:
well boring I'm afraid
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What were you aiming that comment at Pete, it wasn't clear and my interpretation of that comment was that you found riding the route boring, I apologise if that is not what you meant.

With respect we have studied the map and the route we have is about as good as it gets without encountering excessive traffic and overtaking frustration. I spend most days of my working life in and around the Lake District in the car, I know what I am talking about.

Mike's comment, to me at least was clear and it referred to the comments made by Martin and yourself about Kielder, Alston etc Its undeniable that they are fantastic 'biking' roads and I also enjoy riding them, if you were to use those roads though it is no longer Raid the Lakes.

Is who coming where ? RTL or WDW ?
 
This is all such a shame.

The bickering over RTL is bizzare to say the least, It has been a great event over the previous 2 years but this thread is getting to the point where anyone reading it who is/was thinking of attending is just going to think the whole things a waste of time with everyone at each others throats over the organisation.

I know Ian and Michael are unable to organise this years event but it seems as if unless whoever organises RTL 07 copies exactly the 2 previous ones then they are unable to support it or even want it called Raid The Lakes!? Is it better to have a slightly different RTL or just not bother with it at all? If there was any intention running RTL away from the lake district then yes it would be silly to call it Raid the Lakes. But what is the problem with having one of the days routes heading in a different way where the riding is totally different to the loop round the lakes? Is this not what has happened both previous years with the Sunday ride going away from the Lakes and last year for example going via Tebay / Kirkby Stephen / Sedburgh to Devils bridge? When we (potential organisers) mention doing something very similar we become the bad men and got told we cannot now call it Raid the Lakes! FFS!

I am not saying the route is boring but for me and quite a few members who I have consulted the main pleasure of that day was in the lunch at Ravenglass. Just because everybody enjoyed the weekends event does not mean they particularly enjoyed the ride as usual there was a lot of traffic around Windemere etc and the ride through Cleator Moor etc had me losing the will to live.

I dont think its fair to say the event is just about the people and the craic and not about the riding. Surely its about the riding as well? If it was not about the riding why the aggro about changing the route a little? If it were not about riding our bikes we could just get a coach service laid on to dump everybody at the hotel where we could get @@@@ed and talk bikes for 2 or 3 days. This event would of course have to be renamed (Drink the Lakes Dry has a nice ring to it)

I do appreciate that the event drew new people in its second year but maybe running a different route may keep those coming back rather than them thinking 'been there done that' ?

If the event took in some roads more suited to people wanting to ride their bikes as they were designed to be ridden it does not make it more dangerous, I think some wider / much quieter / more flowing roads would surely not be any more dangerous than trying to work your way through a load of myopic caravan towing pensioners? I am not advocating Death Race 2007 (theres a catchy new name for RTL!?) but surely all the riders are adults and have riding experience and it seems a little condescending to imply that let them loose on some new roads would result in carnage?

I do agree re the venue, the Inn on the Lake is in a superb situation with a large car park, a petrol station just across the road and many B&Bs and a campsite down the road. It did help elevate last years event and make it more special. I dont agree about only running RTL every other year though, why is it such a big deal about having them in the same year? There a long summer ahead with plenty of opportunities to ride our bikes and I cannot see how WDW affects a group of enthusiast meeting up in the lakes.

I think we should get some perspective about the whole RTL thing before everybody loses interest.
 
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