Operation bail the fvk out

AirCon

Resident Thermodynamics / Electronics specialist
Subscriber
When laying in bed the other day thinking about you, I was curious...

These tanks, the water is static at times I guess unless you pump continuously with a return. How warm is the water in there, any issues with legionella or other such. Maybe that is more of a concern for unvented hot water that is used for showers etc I have no idea. Do you add any kind of water purification tablets if using for drinking water? or do you drink bottled water. I know you probably boil the water most of the time or you're drinking grape juice.
Legionella needs to have water circa blood temperature, however it can thrive from 20 to 45°C where nutrients are present.
Below 20°C it doesn't grow and above 45°C it slows down. It can be fatal in vulnerable people, exactly the same group as COVID, its a type of pneumonia
Typically above ground storage water needs to be treated if the stored water gets to this temperature.
You shouldn't be drinking hot water from your tank and any systems with stored water should increase the temperature of the water to above 70°C for at least 60 minutes every week. Different authorities adjust these numbers.
It's the main reasons circulating hot water in big buildings is very hot, then blended at each tap.

Our water cooled roof towers are subject to many legal controls for good reason.
Bird shit and dust make great food for this.
1612639754658.png
 

Chizel - Founding Father

Elite Member
Subscriber
Legionella needs to have water circa blood temperature, however it can thrive from 20 to 45°C where nutrients are present.
Below 20°C it doesn't grow and above 45°C it slows down. It can be fatal in vulnerable people, exactly the same group as COVID, its a type of pneumonia
Typically above ground storage water needs to be treated if the stored water gets to this temperature.
You shouldn't be drinking hot water from your tank and any systems with stored water should increase the temperature of the water to above 70°C for at least 60 minutes every week. Different authorities adjust these numbers.
It's the main reasons circulating hot water in big buildings is very hot, then blended at each tap.

Our water cooled roof towers are subject to many legal controls for good reason.
Bird shit and dust make great food for this.
View attachment 10876
So I'm going to die?
 

NotCarlFogarty

Active member
Subscriber
Legionella needs to have water circa blood temperature, however it can thrive from 20 to 45°C where nutrients are present.
Below 20°C it doesn't grow and above 45°C it slows down. It can be fatal in vulnerable people, exactly the same group as COVID, its a type of pneumonia
Typically above ground storage water needs to be treated if the stored water gets to this temperature.
You shouldn't be drinking hot water from your tank and any systems with stored water should increase the temperature of the water to above 70°C for at least 60 minutes every week. Different authorities adjust these numbers.
It's the main reasons circulating hot water in big buildings is very hot, then blended at each tap.

Our water cooled roof towers are subject to many legal controls for good reason.
Bird shit and dust make great food for this.
View attachment 10876
Thank you AirCon interesting to know :) We have two small commerical unvented hot water systems inspected/certificated periodically, routine temp checks and blender valves at point of use in a commerical building I am responsible for. Compliance for regulated use. Cold Mains obviously (not tank fed).

Chizels setup, I was just curious, (I didn't look into it) I thought there might be some kind of water treatment for stored cold water (with rain/river water harvesting) ambient temps of summer but I guess it stays cool deep enough below ground, non issue and is ok to store the water. Not something I've ever been involved with. I just vaguely recalled military carrying water purification tablets and or reading about a teaspoon of chlorine bleach or similar in specific volume of water, boiling being the preferred other method. Obviously some in 3rd world countries drink (dirty) river water which is a completely different thing again and there are other factors that make them poorly. I only know harvesting rain water in the UK to flush toilets.

No such thing as stupid questions apparently.. do I need to drain that fuel tank before welding it, or how is Exile getting on with that bike he has been building.
I just like to know about things.,

Off topic but still random information.. The companies I worked for in the past, did do some work at water treatment plants occasionally I was not involved with that.... I know we were enlisted to install big blowers (high volume low pressure) to move water around in the past at a reservoir, I think that was to do with Algae, I'm not sure that was implemented anywhere else. Many years ago I had to build something to keep the water clear in a Moat than ran round a glass building in Cambridge on an industrial estate obviously different conditions entirely not comparing the two. If you are bored, look up water purification by Ultra filter. We did get involved with a couple Breweries refits...

My back ground is M&E, Engineering & Construction, Industry.

Also installed Climate Control at Cov Uni (not a nice job) and Chilled water for Moulding process I recall.. we did not supply just install, and worked from schematics. AirCon you'll know way more about that type of kit than I do. Although we were no1 distributors in the UK for some industrial Kit though... not water chillers or air conditioning. No idea how we ended up on that, but we worked for big manufacturing companies. Distribution centres might use Siemens controls, but we fit the kit, they commissioned it. Water towers were used to cool some of our piston machines back in the day before I got started.

On the tools for about 10 years (actually still did bits here and there after) frustrating watching people fuck the job up years later when I was wearing a shirt and tie (having to BS the customer when I know what the issues were) I left that job not long after I passed probation, worked in various other roles.
After being on the tools... I did spec, design, we supplied and installed (little while ago now). The error I made was thinking I could go it alone at that scale. I had a well known Germany Company giving me leads. I ended up subcontracting back to people I worked for after a few months. Then went into a Construction bias role, a good amount of our work was on new sites anyway.. One of the companies we worked for I think built a Terminal at Heathrow (we would have got involved with the baggage handling systems then) skills cross over. Over the years eventually going into domestic/residential the projects got smaller when I had guys working for me... eventually working direct for customers, before doing my own things.

Previously... wind tunnels, power stations, generators to power servers in the event of power cut, F1 Dynos, (no questions asked) MOD, NHS, UNIs, Pharm, Food.. Installed some big-ish water pipe work once or twice, block and tackle/fork trucks. Mainly Filtration incorporating Refrigeration/Desiccant industrial Compressed Air inc high pressure systems and breathing air, vacuum, odd bit of Gas/Fuel, Inert gasses, Nitrogen regeneration not so much. Hydro cleaners. Always interested to learn nature of my work and not making mistakes. Variable speed motor training in Germany.

Lockdown now, and looking at photos of NZ on the internet. Back on topic NZ... looks v nice.
I was speaking to a guy who lives there recently who rides a GSXR.
 
Last edited:

West Cork Paul

Elite Member
Subscriber
Thank you AirCon interesting to know :) We have two small commerical unvented hot water systems inspected/certificated periodically, routine temp checks and blender valves at point of use in a commerical building I am responsible for. Compliance for regulated use. Cold Mains obviously (not tank fed).

Chizels setup, I was just curious, (I didn't look into it) I thought there might be some kind of water treatment for stored cold water (with rain/river water harvesting) ambient temps of summer but I guess it stays cool deep enough below ground, non issue and is ok to store the water. Not something I've ever been involved with. I just vaguely recalled military carrying water purification tablets and or reading about a teaspoon of chlorine bleach or similar in specific volume of water, boiling being the preferred other method. Obviously some in 3rd world countries drink (dirty) river water which is a completely different thing again and there are other factors that make them poorly. I only know harvesting rain water in the UK to flush toilets.

No such thing as stupid questions apparently.. do I need to drain that fuel tank before welding it, or how is Exile getting on with that bike he has been building.
I just like to know about things.,

Off topic but still random information.. The companies I worked for in the past, did do some work at water treatment plants occasionally I was not involved with that.... I know we were enlisted to install big blowers (high volume low pressure) to move water around in the past at a reservoir, I think that was to do with Algae, I'm not sure that was implemented anywhere else. Many years ago I had to build something to keep the water clear in a Moat than ran round a glass building in Cambridge on an industrial estate obviously different conditions entirely not comparing the two. If you are bored, look up water purification by Ultra filter. We did get involved with a couple Breweries refits...

My back ground is M&E, Engineering & Construction, Industry.

Also installed Climate Control at Cov Uni (not a nice job) and Chilled water for Moulding process I recall.. we did not supply just install, and worked from schematics. AirCon you'll know way more about that type of kit than I do. Although we were no1 distributors in the UK for some industrial Kit though... not water chillers or air conditioning. No idea how we ended up on that, but we worked for big manufacturing companies. Distribution centres might use Siemens controls, but we fit the kit, they commissioned it. Water towers were used to cool some of our piston machines back in the day before I got started.

On the tools for about 10 years (actually still did bits here and there after) frustrating watching people fuck the job up years later when I was wearing a shirt and tie (having to BS the customer when I know what the issues were) I left that job not long after I passed probation, worked in various other roles.
After being on the tools... I did spec, design, we supplied and installed (little while ago now). The error I made was thinking I could go it alone at that scale. I had a well known Germany Company giving me leads. I ended up subcontracting back to people I worked for after a few months. Then went into a Construction bias role, a good amount of our work was on new sites anyway.. One of the companies we worked for I think built a Terminal at Heathrow (we would have got involved with the baggage handling systems then) skills cross over. Over the years eventually going into domestic/residential the projects got smaller when I had guys working for me... eventually working direct for customers, before doing my own things.

Previously... wind tunnels, power stations, generators to power servers in the event of power cut, F1 Dynos, (no questions asked) MOD, NHS, UNIs, Pharm, Food.. Installed some big-ish water pipe work once or twice, block and tackle/fork trucks. Mainly Filtration incorporating Refrigeration/Desiccant industrial Compressed Air inc high pressure systems and breathing air, vacuum, odd bit of Gas/Fuel, Inert gasses, Nitrogen regeneration not so much. Hydro cleaners. Always interested to learn nature of my work and not making mistakes. Variable speed motor training in Germany.

Lockdown now, and looking at photos of NZ on the internet. Back on topic NZ... looks v nice.
I was speaking to a guy who lives there recently who rides a GSXR.
Blimey Carl, you suffering from a sugar overdose from too much Tiramisu or something?

To summarise for @Chizel - Founding Father

1. Carl's been around a bit.
2. Your Bro is fooked if he doesn't add something to kill the bacteria in the holding tanks.

HTH :ROFLMAO:
 

AirCon

Resident Thermodynamics / Electronics specialist
Subscriber
Thank you AirCon interesting to know :) We have two small commerical unvented hot water systems inspected/certificated periodically, routine temp checks and blender valves at point of use in a commerical building I am responsible for. Compliance for regulated use. Cold Mains obviously (not tank fed).

Chizels setup, I was just curious, (I didn't look into it) I thought there might be some kind of water treatment for stored cold water (with rain/river water harvesting) ambient temps of summer but I guess it stays cool deep enough below ground, non issue and is ok to store the water. Not something I've ever been involved with. I just vaguely recalled military carrying water purification tablets and or reading about a teaspoon of chlorine bleach or similar in specific volume of water, boiling being the preferred other method. Obviously some in 3rd world countries drink (dirty) river water which is a completely different thing again and there are other factors that make them poorly. I only know harvesting rain water in the UK to flush toilets.

No such thing as stupid questions apparently.. do I need to drain that fuel tank before welding it, or how is Exile getting on with that bike he has been building.
I just like to know about things.,

Off topic but still random information.. The companies I worked for in the past, did do some work at water treatment plants occasionally I was not involved with that.... I know we were enlisted to install big blowers (high volume low pressure) to move water around in the past at a reservoir, I think that was to do with Algae, I'm not sure that was implemented anywhere else. Many years ago I had to build something to keep the water clear in a Moat than ran round a glass building in Cambridge on an industrial estate obviously different conditions entirely not comparing the two. If you are bored, look up water purification by Ultra filter. We did get involved with a couple Breweries refits...

My back ground is M&E, Engineering & Construction, Industry.

Also installed Climate Control at Cov Uni (not a nice job) and Chilled water for Moulding process I recall.. we did not supply just install, and worked from schematics. AirCon you'll know way more about that type of kit than I do. Although we were no1 distributors in the UK for some industrial Kit though... not water chillers or air conditioning. No idea how we ended up on that, but we worked for big manufacturing companies. Distribution centres might use Siemens controls, but we fit the kit, they commissioned it. Water towers were used to cool some of our piston machines back in the day before I got started.

On the tools for about 10 years (actually still did bits here and there after) frustrating watching people fuck the job up years later when I was wearing a shirt and tie (having to BS the customer when I know what the issues were) I left that job not long after I passed probation, worked in various other roles.
After being on the tools... I did spec, design, we supplied and installed (little while ago now). The error I made was thinking I could go it alone at that scale. I had a well known Germany Company giving me leads. I ended up subcontracting back to people I worked for after a few months. Then went into a Construction bias role, a good amount of our work was on new sites anyway.. One of the companies we worked for I think built a Terminal at Heathrow (we would have got involved with the baggage handling systems then) skills cross over. Over the years eventually going into domestic/residential the projects got smaller when I had guys working for me... eventually working direct for customers, before doing my own things.

Previously... wind tunnels, power stations, generators to power servers in the event of power cut, F1 Dynos, (no questions asked) MOD, NHS, UNIs, Pharm, Food.. Installed some big-ish water pipe work once or twice, block and tackle/fork trucks. Mainly Filtration incorporating Refrigeration/Desiccant industrial Compressed Air inc high pressure systems and breathing air, vacuum, odd bit of Gas/Fuel, Inert gasses, Nitrogen regeneration not so much. Hydro cleaners. Always interested to learn nature of my work and not making mistakes. Variable speed motor training in Germany.

Lockdown now, and looking at photos of NZ on the internet. Back on topic NZ... looks v nice.
I was speaking to a guy who lives there recently who rides a GSXR.
I've read this a couple of times..... is there a question?
Interesting background...
I look forward to your support on any issues arising in these areas, should my fellow community members ask questions and not like the answers I give.

Legionella is typically generated in OPEN cooling systems, such as adiabatic cooling (which we do).
Really good for Print shops, although not many left in the UK.
1612793837065.png
.
 

NotCarlFogarty

Active member
Subscriber
Blimey Carl, you suffering from a sugar overdose from too much Tiramisu or something?

To summarise for @Chizel - Founding Father

1. Carl's been around a bit.
2. Your Bro is fooked if he doesn't add something to kill the bacteria in the holding tanks.

HTH :ROFLMAO:
No, I have not slept properly in days.

1) Yes this is true to some extent. who hasn't been?

2)No I don't think so. & No I wasn't ever questioning that!
I assumed they know what they are doing and plenty others in NZ do. I was asking what they did.
I have no idea about the bacteria in the holding tanks. I was just asking if there was an issue and how they dealt with it because I've never seen it before.


* The long response was more extension of Aircons post... I was interested in what he posted.
 
Last edited:

Exige

Elite Member
Subscriber
or how is Exile getting on with that bike he has been building.
I just like to know about things.,


I've sifted through the non important stuff - frame and engine still at Chad's having the exhaust system manufactured - he's been busy but has started on the rear of the system recently :)
 

West Cork Paul

Elite Member
Subscriber
No, I have not slept properly in days.

1) Yes this is true to some extent. who hasn't been?

2)No I don't think so. & No I wasn't ever questioning that!
I assumed they know what they are doing and plenty others in NZ do. I was asking what they did.
I have no idea about the bacteria in the holding tanks. I was just asking if there was an issue and how they dealt with it because I've never seen it before.


* The long response was more extension of Aircons post... I was interested in what he posted.
I was only pulling your leg Carl and trying to wind up Chizel 😁. blimey if I recounted all of my peripatetic life it would fill pages & pages on here 😕.?
 

NotCarlFogarty

Active member
Subscriber
I was only pulling your leg Carl and trying to wind up Chizel 😁. blimey if I recounted all of my peripatetic life it would fill pages & pages on here 😕.?
I know this Paul & I can't recount it all even if I tried..

Quite a few people on here have mentioned things they do etc & I've never mentioned it if I recall, making up for lost time now.
I can try to fill in the gaps if you like?.. but it might take more than a few days, that wasn't even close. Did it seem it? Did I mention the time I had Kung Fu fight with a Gurkha at Brize Norton in the Spot light club....There might actually be some interesting stories, telling my boss you can't clean a turd, some drink related incidents, where the parking space wasn't quite wide enough. My writing a work vehicle off on the way home (days after the MD had said he had not seen me in his office a while) or when I flipped my bike and broke my wrist, I left the company on sick leave, went to the competitor (who is now a personal friend). I might need more than some tiramisu (no you can't have too much) perhaps just coffee with a spoon. Probably best not to is what you are saying :)

In my defence it is lockdown and winter and I don't have Portboy, Zhed or Duke for entertainment over here.

Exige, I would like to see the pipes when they are made, I assume there is thread on here somewhere.

NZ, is welsh lamb better?
 
Last edited:

JAT

Elite Member
Subscriber
Are you sure they’re not your sons Chiz??
Either your son standing next to you has very long arms or there is a ghost hand on your shoulder...

Joking aside must be good to all get together after all that time.
 
Top