New Shed Build

[Fight the streets Fmd]

Hmmm, stainless screws . That’s a good point. It’s so damp here all winter. I used the standard green decking screws on the cladding of the workshop shed and Spax wood screws on all the bits underneath that. I’m gonna look closely at them, see how they’ve held up after 7 years.

If you are building something substantial then I suggest that you gift yourself a paslode nail gun for Christmas Paul, you can then choose out of galv or Ss, so much easier

 

[The skitz]

Our place is 98 years old, the original piles had one 9 inch nail going through the bearer into the stump that acted as a pile.
those nails, although rusty, were still intact and required cutting with a metal blade on a recip saw.
I doubt they were even galvanized let alone stainless!
I'd imagine alot of that is to do with the timber used and how metals react to it. I do think though the use of stainless is an overkill in alot of builds over here.
Also stainless screws can be a fucken pain.
I have used all stainless fixings on all our foundation work jic and it wernt cheap .
Fortunately ive a bud who supplies fixings but it still adds up.

The quality of even the nails back then chiz would put the shit we have now to shame

 

[Laava]

Is it too early to tell you, you dun it wrong mate?

 

[Gimlet]

Hmmm, stainless screws . That’s a good point. It’s so damp here all winter. I used the standard green decking screws on the cladding of the workshop shed and Spax wood screws on all the bits underneath that. I’m gonna look closely at them, see how they’ve held up after 7 years.

I wouldn't worry about stainless screws. They cost a fortune - if you can find any. If it's done right () none of your screw heads should be exposed externally anyway.

If you are going with blockwork strip pads with the floor panel screwed/bolted to them and you intend to screw through the timbers into the top of the blocks rather than using restraint strap down the side, you could just use 13mm stainless threaded bar and resin. In fact 10mm would be enough. SS threaded stud is relatively cheap by the metre, simple to fit and you don't need much of it - three to each pad 6 inches into the blocks will be plenty, just keep one joist in on the outside, not right on the edge of the blockwork - and immensely strong.

 

[Chizel - Founding Father]

If you are building something substantial then I suggest that you gift yourself a paslode nail gun for Christmas Paul, you can then choose out of galv or Ss, so much easier

100% but id go a battery gun. Had my first dewalt 6 years , musta put a few hundred thousand nails through it and could count the jambs or miss fires onto one hand during that time. Unlike my paslode that would fuck up pretty much daily..
No gas required and zero cleaning on the dewalt also other than the odd wipe over for cosmetics.
Don't know if still available in the uk ( they ain't in nz) is the model with the bump mode where ya hold the trigger in and just press the gun to the timber to fire, you can shoot 4 nails a second if ya can move ya hand that fast, awesome for nailing off floors!
The only downside to the dewalt is it's slightly bulkier than a paslode but still fits in a 355mm gap for nailing nogs.

 

[NoGutsNoGlory]

100% but id go a battery gun. Had my first dewalt 6 years , musta put a few hundred thousand nails through it and could count the jambs or miss fires onto one hand during that time. Unlike my paslode that would fuck up pretty much daily..
No gas required and zero cleaning on the dewalt also other than the odd wipe over for cosmetics.
Don't know if still available in the uk ( they ain't in nz) is the model with the bump mode where ya hold the trigger in and just press the gun to the timber to fire, you can shoot 4 nails a second if ya can move ya hand that fast, awesome for nailing off floors!
The only downside to the dewalt is it's slightly bulkier than a paslode but still fits in a 355mm gap for nailing nogs.

I’ve got a paslode 90mm and an angled second fix paslode. The second fix gun has played up almost from new and frustrates the fuk out of me, the 90mm has never missed a beat from memory.
I’m going to sell them both and buy battery options.

 

[Fight the streets Fmd]

100% but id go a battery gun. Had my first dewalt 6 years , musta put a few hundred thousand nails through it and could count the jambs or miss fires onto one hand during that time. Unlike my paslode that would fuck up pretty much daily..
No gas required and zero cleaning on the dewalt also other than the odd wipe over for cosmetics.
Don't know if still available in the uk ( they ain't in nz) is the model with the bump mode where ya hold the trigger in and just press the gun to the timber to fire, you can shoot 4 nails a second if ya can move ya hand that fast, awesome for nailing off floors!
The only downside to the dewalt is it's slightly bulkier than a paslode but still fits in a 355mm gap for nailing nogs.

My paslode is 25 years old, still working fine but is looked after, they can be a bit temperamental with heavy use

 

[The skitz]

Fucking paslode guns should be Fucking banned.... try moving trimmers or joists after some trigger happy Guinness has put 489 nails into the end of a 9x2 instead of actually doing the job correctly

 

[Chizel - Founding Father]

I’ve got a paslode 90mm and an angled second fix paslode. The second fix gun has played up almost from new and frustrates the fuk out of me, the 90mm has never missed a beat from memory.
I’m going to sell them both and buy battery options.

Had it other way round, my framing gun played up non stop almost from new but the pin gun lasted 10 years or so and was reliable. I got another pin gun cheap off a mate and that's average, needs servicing often. I'll get a battery one when it pisses me off enough.

 

[Markduc]

Does it really need fastening to the base , wcp doesn’t live in Kansas

 

[Chizel - Founding Father]

Fucking paslode guns should be Fucking banned.... try moving trimmers or joists after some trigger happy Guinness has put 489 nails into the end of a 9x2 instead of actually doing the job correctly

Had a mate i used to do roofs with and he was like that! 10 fucken nails on each rafter to the ridge. Mind you, he was a fat cvnt and was scared it would fallapart while he was climbing on it. Truth be known he was probably weakening the timber with that many nails at the end of it

 

[NoGutsNoGlory]

Fucking paslode guns should be Fucking banned.... try moving trimmers or joists after some trigger happy Guinness has put 489 nails into the end of a 9x2 instead of actually doing the job correctly

Screws do the job so much better. I’ve never liked my framing gun as you need to put too many nails in where a couple of screws would suffice.

 

[Dox]

These nail guns are alright and everything, but you can’t beat a hammer…where’s our resident expert?
@WAYNE

 

[West Cork Paul]

I’ll be using screws. I did on the workshop shed (JIC I wanted to disassemble it - and thankfully as I have to open up part of one side I’m glad I did). Besides I like screwing .

 

[West Cork Paul]

So here are the steps rising up the back yard area.

And here’s the side of the workshop shed.

If the line of the steps were extended it would hit the workshop shed just to the right of the window. Therefore I can’t extend the workshop shed in full.

I plan to remove the shiplap cladding to the left of the window, there’s a stud obviously running down the side of that window, and the membrane wrapped OSB that’s underneath the cladding will be the wall to the office shed on that side. I’ll leave in place the battens the cladding is mounted on and use them to mount my internal ply boarding. My porch area for the all important rocking chair etc will extend out where the window is but be truncated so it doesn’t impinge upon the top of the steps. That way some natural light can still get into the workshop shed on that side (east facing).

I’ll lay some blocks, using mortar to make sure they’re level (plus I have a Parkside laser level I picked up in Lidl a couple of years back which I haven’t used yet), then I’ll cover the blocks with DPM sheet and cut 12mm WBP ply to size and screw it to the blocks with concrete screws.

I’ll then lay the joists, 400mm centres on the ply, screw them to the ply, then lay 18mm osb on the joists and screw that to the joists. (I’ll put carpet tiles or some sort of covering on the OSB once it’s finished.) Thats the floor (and one wall) sorted .

Does that sound like a plan?

 

[Exige]

Does that sound like a plan?

Here's a better one: retire ffs .................

 

[West Cork Paul]

Here's a better one: retire ffs .................

I’d only get bored.

 

[Chizel - Founding Father]

I’ll be using screws. I did on the workshop shed (JIC I wanted to disassemble it - and thankfully as I have to open up part of one side I’m glad I did). Besides I like screwing .

I fucken hate using screws. Why use a screw when a nail will do...
If you haven't driven the screws in to far you may be ok taking them out at a later date... in my experience, it's quicker and easier to dismantle something that's been nailed together rather than screwed..

 

[NoGutsNoGlory]

I fucken hate using screws. Why use a screw when a nail will do...
If you haven't driven the screws in to far you may be ok taking them out at a later date... in my experience, it's quicker and easier to dismantle something that's been nailed together rather than screwed..

Old school!

 

[Gimlet]

I hate using shit crews. I generally buy Reisser from Howdens because I have a trade account. Timco are OK as well. So are Spax but they're quite aggressive and dearer.
Back when I was building a lot of extensions, garages etc I'd reuse the screws I used for putting up the wooden profiles when setting out the site. The 4" ones in my screw box were always brown and might have been used two or three times. Cheap shit screws you've got a job to get them in once before the heads disintegrate, never mind get out again and then reuse them twice more.
Goes without saying (well, it should..) you need decent screwdriver bits as well, and the right ones...

Beware reusing concrete screws. They don't grip as well the second time because they lose the serrations on the threads, and don't make a mistake so you have to unscrew them and then refit them to the same hole. They rarely grip tightly the second time and if they don't engage in exactly the same way with the thread that they've cut into the masonry they'll rip it out and then it's fooked.

 

[Gimlet]

I fucken hate using screws. Why use a screw when a nail will do...
If you haven't driven the screws in to far you may be ok taking them out at a later date... in my experience, it's quicker and easier to dismantle something that's been nailed together rather than screwed..

Nails ain't what they used to be either. Galv batten nails I used 30 years ago on roofs never used to bend as easily as they do now. They're sold by weight and I swear they've got thinner.

And talking of 30 years ago, you chippie kids don't know you're born. Back in the day blokes screwed everything on site together, including entire cut roofs, using one of these - all chippies had them. There was wasn't a battery drill in sight:

 

[Chizel - Founding Father]

Nails ain't what they used to be either. Galv batten nails I used 30 years ago on roofs never used to bend as easily as they do now. They're sold by weight and I swear they've got thinner.

And talking of 30 years ago, you chippie kids don't know you're born. Back in the day blokes screwed everything on site together, including entire cut roofs, using one of these - all chippies had them. There was wasn't a battery drill in sight:

View attachment 153814

Where is the Jubilee clip around it to stop it rolling away?
I'm not buying that anyone ever screwed a cut roof together unless forced to!!! .. nailed by hand all day long..

 

[Markduc]

Paul take no notice of these amateurs, this is what you need , so good the Roman’s built the colosseum with it and it’s still standing
Unfortunately they hadn’t invented the water proof version by the time they built hadrians wall

 

[Gimlet]

Where is the Jubilee clip around it to stop it rolling away?
I'm not buying that anyone ever screwed a cut roof together unless forced to!!! .. nailed by hand all day long..

You shouldn't have time to put it down . You're right though, cut roofs are usually nailed, but back in the '80's I watched a gang of chippies finish a cut roof on a new bungalow we'd come to tile, and they screwed it. Why I don't know - time maybe - but it stuck in my memory. I think they'd just fucked up their timing and had forgotten we were coming to roof the place that day (no mobile phnes then). They'd been fitting some Veluxes and there was loads of rafters and jack rafters still to fit. About four of them jumped on it and just whacked everyting in with their Stanleys. By the time they were clearing off the scaffold we were running our first row of felt.
But every job where you use a battery drill today was done with a pump action Stanley not so very long ago.
"Tradesmen" today whose only qualifications are owning a battery drill, a mastic gun and trousers with knee pads in them, wouldn't have cut it back then. And deffo screws and nails were better quality then.

 

[Chizel - Founding Father]

You shouldn't have time to put it down . You're right though, cut roofs are usually nailed, but back in the '80's I watched a gang of chippies finish a cut roof on a new bungalow we'd come to tile, and they screwed it. Why I don't know - time maybe - but it stuck in my memory. I think they'd just fucked up their timing and had forgotten we were coming to roof the place that day (no mobile phnes then). They'd been fitting some Veluxes and there was loads of rafters and jack rafters still to fit. About four of them jumped on it and just whacked everyting in with their Stanleys. By the time they were clearing off the scaffold we were running our first row of felt.
But every job where you use a battery drill today was done with a pump action Stanley not so very long ago.
"Tradesmen" today whose only qualifications are owning a battery drill, a mastic gun and trousers with knee pads in them, wouldn't have cut it back then. And deffo screws and nails were better quality then.

And you won't find fuck all "tradesmen " that would even know where to start with a cut roof these days.. only met a few in my time in the uk and even less in nz.. dont get me wrong, a decent chippy is more than capable but just hasn't done it due to modern truss roofs and various aspects of the build being shopped out ather than the main builder doing the lot..

 

[Gimlet]

And you won't find fuck all "tradesmen " that would even know where to start with a cut roof these days.. only met a few in my time in the uk and even less in nz.. dont get me wrong, a decent chippy is more than capable but just hasn't done it due to modern truss roofs and various aspects of the build being shopped out ather than the main builder doing the lot..

That is very true. I've known many a perfectly good chippie who didn't know where to start with a cut roof. I worked for years with an old school chippie, Dave. I think he's about ten years older than me, so late 60's now, and time-served. When he was doing his apprenticeship on Fridays they stopped work at 4:00 because that was "sharpen up " day. No chuckaway saws. They resharpened them and reset the kerf, and sharpened their plane blades on oil stones etc. And the foreman checked them.

I was working with Dave right up until I moved up north. Always cut roofs. I took pride in making sure my footprint was absolutely spot-on with perfect diagonals across the wallplates to make life as easy for him as possible. Biggest job I did was a four bed detached house with bay windows and 13 metres across diagonals. I got them to within 5 mm. Took all day to set the oversite out and the client was jumping up and down wanting everything done yesterday. It took time to get it spot on but that time was paid back ten times over when it came to fitting the roof and internal first-fix.

I used to love watching Dave work. It was like witchcraft. He's a fairly chunky bloke and doesn't do anything quickly. He ambles round the site, always with a pencil clamped in his mouth and the roof seems to appear like magic. When he priced off the plan he'd give me a timber list. I'd get it all delivered and waiting under a tarp and he'd turn up (pencil in mouth) wander round the scaffold with a tape measure and write all his measurements down on the back of a scrap of sandpaper. When he was done he set his trestles and saw up and cut everything down on the ground. Every piece was numbered and when he'd worked his way through the stack of timber I'd help him load it up onto the scaffold and it all just fitted together with a thunk with no daylight in his joints and just a ghost of a pencil line along his seat cuts and birdsmouths. I never saw him offer up a piece to check or cut a jack rafter twice. And I never saw him refer to a table of angles notebook either. Not sure he even possessed one. He had it all in his head. He did it all with tape measure, pencil and an adjustable square.
When his generation hang up their tools there'll be no one to replace them.

 

[The skitz]

Nails ain't what they used to be either. Galv batten nails I used 30 years ago on roofs never used to bend as easily as they do now. They're sold by weight and I swear they've got thinner.

And talking of 30 years ago, you chippie kids don't know you're born. Back in the day blokes screwed everything on site together, including entire cut roofs, using one of these - all chippies had them. There was wasn't a battery drill in sight:

View attachment 153814

This was my first cordless and im 50 next year ... got my first cordless screw gun in my late teens that's when I decided to lift weights... it's was about 6 stone in weight the YANKEE was on our must have list of tools to go to tech .. I was only 14 start in Bolton street college of technology

 

[Chizel - Founding Father]

That is very true. I've known many a perfectly good chippie who didn't know where to start with a cut roof. I worked for years with an old school chippie, Dave. I think he's about ten years older than me, so late 60's now, and time-served. When he was doing his apprenticeship on Fridays they stopped work at 4:00 because that was "sharpen up " day. No chuckaway saws. They resharpened them and reset the kerf, and sharpened their plane blades on oil stones etc. And the foreman checked them.

I was working with Dave right up until I moved up north. Always cut roofs. I took pride in making sure my footprint was absolutely spot-on with perfect diagonals across the wallplates to make life as easy for him as possible. Biggest job I did was a four bed detached house with bay windows and 13 metres across diagonals. I got them to within 5 mm. Took all day to set the oversite out and the client was jumping up and down wanting everything done yesterday. It took time to get it spot on but that time was paid back ten times over when it came to fitting the roof and internal first-fix.

I used to love watching Dave work. It was like witchcraft. He's a fairly chunky bloke and doesn't do anything quickly. He ambles round the site, always with a pencil clamped in his mouth and the roof seems to appear like magic. When he priced off the plan he'd give me a timber list. I'd get it all delivered and waiting under a tarp and he'd turn up (pencil in mouth) wander round the scaffold with a tape measure and write all his measurements down on the back of a scrap of sandpaper. When he was done he set his trestles and saw up and cut everything down on the ground. Every piece was numbered and when he'd worked his way through the stack of timber I'd help him load it up onto the scaffold and it all just fitted together with a thunk with no daylight in his joints and just a ghost of a pencil line along his cuts. I never saw him offer up a piece to check or cut a jack rafter twice. And I never saw him refer to a table of angles notebook either. Not sure he even possessed one. He had it all in his head. He did it all with tape measure, pencil and an adjustable square.
When his generation hang up their tools there'll be no one to replace them.

Love stories like that. I'm quite capable when it comes to cut roofs but I couldn't do it without my ready reckoner and roofing square.. well, I could and have but it takes a lot longer and makes what can be a frustrating job even more so! I love doing cut roofs though and apart from stair cases they are one of the most technical tasks for a chippy but very rewarding. The objective being no daylight in plumb and seat cuts/birdsmouths. Not entirely sure why as once covered they will never be seen again but I lose sleep over stuff like that!!!

 

[The skitz]

Love stories like that. I'm quite capable when it comes to cut roofs but I couldn't do it without my ready reckoner and roofing square.. well, I could and have but it takes a lot longer and makes what can be a frustrating job even more so! I love doing cut roofs though and apart from stair cases they are one of the most technical tasks for a chippy but very rewarding. The objective being no daylight in plumb and seat cuts/birdsmouths. Not entirely sure why as once covered they will never be seen again but I lose sleep over stuff like that!!!

Strokes for folks innit a roofing square on a roof is near identical to marking a stairs out but im fucking useless at roofs having done so few of them but I have made probably made 20k staircases in 30 years .. we make 1200 stairs a year from basic rubbish to get up to a mezzanine to 50k full curves and none of them faze me chiz ... show me a hipped roof and the fat kid starts to quiver and shake

 

[Gimlet]

Love stories like that. I'm quite capable when it comes to cut roofs but I couldn't do it without my ready reckoner and roofing square.. well, I could and have but it takes a lot longer and makes what can be a frustrating job even more so! I love doing cut roofs though and apart from stair cases they are one of the most technical tasks for a chippy but very rewarding. The objective being no daylight in plumb and seat cuts/birdsmouths. Not entirely sure why as once covered they will never be seen again but I lose sleep over stuff like that!!!

It's called pride in the job Chiz. I'm the same. When I rebuild a chimney stack for instance, I always square the footprint perfectly with my first course below the roof line. And it can be a twat if it's miles out on ancient masonry. It doesn't matter a toss because no one is ever going to see it. I measure my corbels (no sniggering at the back) with a tape. They're 8 or 9 metres up in the sky and no ones every going to be able to tell if they're 10mm out. But I'd know..

To me, if I can't look back at a job when I've finished and think, yep, I'm proud of that, there's no point getting up in the morning. Can't stand "good enough", "that'll do" or "no one's going to see that".