New Shed Build

West Cork Paul said:
For your delight and amusement over the coming months I will chronicle my new shed build here. Also by doing so I hope that anyone who actually builds things for a living, and there are plenty of you on here, will chip in with constructive (😂 see what I did there) suggestions as to how to build it. It will save me having to pay for any professional advice. In return you get to laugh as I fuck it up for measuring and cutting wood is, I know from experience, the one thing I just can’t seem to get right.

The shed in question is ‘The Shed’, the one with the famous roof. The roof is fine, a bit of tree detritus on it but otherwise it’s in fine shape, hasn’t let a drop of water in. The problem is the sides of the shed are rotting away.

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You may be asking yourself ‘ why not just buy a kit shed?’. Well, I want to fill the space available now the bushes have all been cut back and it’s not square, it’s trapezoid. Plus I want to mate it up to the workshop next to it so I’m maximising the floor space available to me. Also, it’s going to become an office and store room so I can move all the paperwork that running a business generates out of the workshop and somewhere else, plus I can store all the multiple volumetric metres cubed of service consumables which occupy at least 1/4 of my workshop space. Plus I’m going to insulate it and then I’ll have somewhere warm to hide in the winter.

The first thing, once the current shed is removed, is to frame the floor. I don’t really want to pour a concrete slab as I’ve got enough issues with water run off that area since the slab for the workshop shed was laid. Thus, I’m thinking of using screw piles. I’m going into rock once I get a couple of inches down so recognise I’ll have to drill a hole for each pile. I just think it will be easier and cheaper than laying a slab apart from the water diversion issues.

Measurements are approximate at this stage on this sketch but I think this is what I need to do.

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I’ve checked span tables but am a little confused by them as they may seem to go up to 125kg/sq.mtr (1.25kN/M2). The confusion lies in whether that’s the dead load on the floor placed on the joists, which seems ridiculously low, or the dead load on the top surface area of the joist itself. I’m guessing the latter but would rather not guess.

Once the floor frame is down how do I insulate between the joists and what thickness insulation? Would 75mm suffice in the floor? What do I use to suspend and hold the insulation ?

Ok, laugh away
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Need more info.. as in what height will the ffl be off the existing ground roughly? This may or may not play a part in how you go about your build
 
NoGutsNoGlory said:
For the floor you definitely need 18mm on the top but I used WBP ply for mine. Much nicer finish than OSB for a floor.
I used 12mm OSB internally on the walls though. The two external walls that weren’t seen on my workshop I used WBP again and also the roof which I covered in EDPM.
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What's EDPM? That's a new one on me! Ed in the Afternoon perhaps? :unsure:
I know EPDM is Ethylene Propylene Diene Monomer which is a Polyethylene plastic containing two double bonds between carbon atoms 🤷‍♂️
 
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I did this one in France a couple of years ago with the help of my OH and my mates mum. My mate was supposed to help but he put his back out the day before when we were screwing the roof boards on.
It was my last day over there so I had to get it finished and did it in one day.
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West Cork Paul said:
Thank you, and some good ideas.

If I understand correctly I use the concrete blocks as the foundations? But how do I fix the joists to the blocks? The same way I put my sill plate or whatever it’s called onto the concrete slab for the workshop shed, ie with those hammer in frame fixing thingies? That’s fine for the slab as it weighs XXXX tonnes but how would I anchor the concrete blocks to the ground? Mind you the current shed hasn’t blown away and it’s just sitting on paving slabs.
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Get yourself concrete screws for the timber to concrete work they are far superior than express nails and you can unscrew them if you want to adjust your plans
 
Loz said:
Oi, Beaky, wind your neck in.

Paul, you don't have to answer that.
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He’s only asked so he’ll know whether or not he’ll be able to get up the steps 😂.

Though seriously, @Chizel - Founding Father the floor will be the height of the concrete blocks (whatever they are), plus 12mm (marine or WBP ply) plus 100mm (4x2 joists) plus 18mm (final floor boarding - haven’t decided what type yet).

@NoGutsNoGlory I was planning to use hardwood faced ply for the internal wall boards and the ceiling boarding. The roof will be galvanised corrugated metal sheets so it matches the workshop shed as the office shed has to be tacked onto the workshop shed. I’ll take some more photos tomorrow to explain that in more detail.
 
West Cork Paul said:
He’s only asked so he’ll know whether or not he’ll be able to get up the steps 😂.

Though seriously, @Chizel - Founding Father the floor will be the height of the concrete blocks (whatever they are), plus 12mm (marine or WBP ply) plus 100mm (4x2 joists) plus 18mm (final floor boarding - haven’t decided what type yet).

@NoGutsNoGlory I was planning to use hardwood faced ply for the internal wall boards and the ceiling boarding. The roof will be galvanised corrugated metal sheets so it matches the workshop shed as the office shed has to be tacked onto the workshop shed. I’ll take some more photos tomorrow to explain that in more detail.
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I think I’d be tempted to just extend the workshop on mass so that it all looks like one building.
I’m going to do something similar with the garage at my new house.
 
West Cork Paul said:
I thought about doing the whole thing with SIPs but as they only seem to come in standard sizes I don’t think they will work for this space.

Plus I have to be realistic, it’s just me, there’s no young muscle to assist in the heavy lifting. I can lift an 8x4 piece of osb or ply but I won’t be able to lift, manoeuvre, support and fix 2 bits of osb with insulation sandwiched in between and a frame running round the edge of 5x2, it will just be too heavy.

I like the idea of the sleepers but think I’ll use concrete blocks as I worked with railway sleepers once before and they’re buggers to cut through unless I get the chainsaw on them.

I like the ideas suggested of making up the floor pan and laying it down on the sleepers/blocks but again weight is a consideration so I think I’ll lay out the blocks (or sleepers), cut some 18mm OSB sheets to size, lay a DP membrane over the blocks/sleepers, lay the OSB sheets down, fix some 4x2 framing/joists on top of the base sheets, fill the voids with insulation panels, then lay more OSB on top and that’s the floor done.

Now, 600mm or 400mm centres for the joists? 400 I guess.
Also 18mm or 12mm OSB?

Also, I guess I’ll have to get a mini digger in to scrape off the top 2 inches and get down to rock.

What’s the best way to level the concrete blocks or sleepers? Do I need to get a mixer and make up some concrete to pad out under the blocks?

I am glad I threw this out there though - thank you all.
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NoGutsNoGlory said:
I think I’d be tempted to just extend the workshop on mass so that it all looks like one building.
I’m going to do something similar with the garage at my new house.
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Tempting indeed but unfortunately it won’t work as it would then cut across the steps up to the back yard, thus the office shed needs to be stepped back from the front line of the workshop shed.
 
West Cork Paul said:
He’s only asked so he’ll know whether or not he’ll be able to get up the steps 😂.

Though seriously, @Chizel - Founding Father the floor will be the height of the concrete blocks (whatever they are), plus 12mm (marine or WBP ply) plus 100mm (4x2 joists) plus 18mm (final floor boarding - haven’t decided what type yet).

@NoGutsNoGlory I was planning to use hardwood faced ply for the internal wall boards and the ceiling boarding. The roof will be galvanised corrugated metal sheets so it matches the workshop shed as the office shed has to be tacked onto the workshop shed. I’ll take some more photos tomorrow to explain that in more detail.
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Factor in insulation under the roofing sheets or you'll get terrible condensation.
 
Chizel - Founding Father said:
Crazy eh... the other thing Is fixings. Over here, if ya building within x of the sea or anything below 600mm offa the ground , it must be in stainless. That shit adds up quickly...
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Hmmm, stainless screws 🤔. That’s a good point. It’s so damp here all winter. I used the standard green decking screws on the cladding of the workshop shed and Spax wood screws on all the bits underneath that. I’m gonna look closely at them, see how they’ve held up after 7 years.
 
West Cork Paul said:
Hmmm, stainless screws 🤔. That’s a good point. It’s so damp here all winter. I used the standard green decking screws on the cladding of the workshop shed and Spax wood screws on all the bits underneath that. I’m gonna look closely at them, see how they’ve held up after 7 years.
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Our place is 98 years old, the original piles had one 9 inch nail going through the bearer into the stump that acted as a pile.
those nails, although rusty, were still intact and required cutting with a metal blade on a recip saw.
I doubt they were even galvanized let alone stainless!
I'd imagine alot of that is to do with the timber used and how metals react to it. I do think though the use of stainless is an overkill in alot of builds over here.
Also stainless screws can be a fucken pain.
I have used all stainless fixings on all our foundation work jic and it wernt cheap .
Fortunately ive a bud who supplies fixings but it still adds up.
 
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