More rumours of a 1098 engined naked Fighter

[Gizmo]

Just spotted another couple of sites claiming Ducati will launch a naked 1098 engined Fighter in Milan. Rumours continue despite dealers denying all knowledge of this model but according to one report it has now been presented to them????


http://www.fasterandfaster.net/2008/09/2009-ducati-fighter-1098-to-be-unveiled.html


http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2008/09/2009-ducati-fighter-armed-with.html

Inmoto mag had this photo on the cover earlier in the year but there are a few other mock up images around the web as well.

 

[Spud Raver]

So what exactly is the difference between the new monster and this?

Doesnt seem that much so why bother bringing out 2 virtually same models?

 

[Gizmo]

its based on a 1098 Davie, more HP I'd think more wheelies more like a Tuono

 

[PaulV]

and a lot more interesting from my perspective!

 

[Spud Raver]

its based on a 1098 Davie, more HP I'd think more wheelies more like a Tuono

Yes, but is the new monster not 1100cc?? What would be the point, just seems daft to produce near 2 identical bikes at the same time?

Am I missing something here?

 

[PaulV]

Yes, but is the new monster not 1100cc?? What would be the point, just seems daft to produce near 2 identical bikes at the same time?

Am I missing something here?

1100 engine from hyper/multi kicks out circa 100bhp depending on tuning, size of airbox etc, 1098 engine 160 ish. Big difference. Also the geometry of the bike will give different riding characteristics......

Two completely different bikes.

 

[Spud Raver]

OK.....about 60 bhp......I see. :idea:

 

[dlloyduk]

Just been on about this on the Monster forum. It seems like Ducati is going to have a range of bikes costing a few hundred either side of 10grand and one costing 5 1/2 which puzzles me.

 

[Gizmo]

the grand plan was to reduce the number of low profit margin/cheaper models and move towards higher profit/expensive bikes, they'll keep an entry level bike in a monster but if one looks at rest of range its now all 1000 cc and above other than the 848. Personally i think its madness but as they are selling more bikes than ever what would i know??

 

[239desmo]

the grand plan was to reduce the number of low profit margin/cheaper models and move towards higher profit/expensive bikes, they'll keep an entry level bike in a monster but if one looks at rest of range its now all 1000 cc and above other than the 848. Personally i think its madness but as they are selling more bikes than ever what would i know??

In a market where people will buy luxury goods that is ok but if the credit crunch happens then non essential items such as expensive motorcycles will be the first to feel the effect. Too many eggs in one basket perhaps?

 

[Steve748]

If the picture is anything to go on I hope they don't do the exhausts both on one side, it looked crap on the sportclassic and it will look crap on the new model.

 

[alane]

Not wishing to divert the thread into another $ vs £ whinge about american pricing, but the costs on the hellforleather site are interesting.

Also, will it be an oil clutch ala 848?

Personally I would go for a cheaper 1098 (last year model) and do your own streetfighter conversion. I think you could get far better quality bits than have appeared on some of the ducati Snr range and make a better result. Plus you got the bits to sell on. my 2p

 

[Steve748]

If you binned your 1098 it would be worth considering turning it to streetfighterish, I would have thought the official model would have different fittings, hoses routing more tidier etc, different radiator etc clocks mountings and headlamps:dunno:

 

[Spud Raver]

In a market where people will buy luxury goods that is ok but if the credit crunch happens then non essential items such as expensive motorcycles will be the first to feel the effect. Too many eggs in one basket perhaps?

Thats what Im thinking.......but hey ho, Im just a humble tradesman

 

[Bert3]

Not wishing to divert the thread into another $ vs £ whinge about american pricing, but the costs on the hellforleather site are interesting.

Not interesting - infuriating ..... so, the yanks would get a 1098 'fighter for £8k, but we'll be asked to pay £9,200 for the Monster S, and probably get asked for north of £11k for any superbike based streetfighter ...... I fully understand that Duc startegy is to market competitively against the Japs in the States, but how thick do I look if they think I'm gonna stump up to cover two profit margins so some fat yank can have a cheap deal?

There's a really really big bump down to earth coming for Duc if it doesn't stop asking European customers to subsidise other 'more important' markets .... like's been pointed out - the first thing to go when cash gets tight are the luxury toys ..... and once you've lost a customer, they're gone, and very rarely come back ...which is a pity for the dealers who have gone to great lengths to win back riders over the past 10 years or so.....

 

[Bert3]

eerrrr, Mart, I worked a contract last year for an Anglo/American/NZ company, and I could be paid for my contract in any of the currencies from those countries - the pound/US dollar rate they offered was £40k/$78k p.a., because that's what they pay an 'equivalent job' in each country....

Now, if I bought a 1098 base model here out of my £40k, I would have about £28k left ($50k at 1.8 exchange rate, which is worse than last year); you're saying that's the same as paying $16,500 (plus sales tax!) out of my $78k ..... don't think so..... 'sales tax' would have to be $12k, or 70%+ .... and it's not! So, taking into account exchange rates, cost of living, and equivalent job salaries, a Yank engineer simply has more dosh left than a British engineer after buying a Ducati!

Now, as a dealer you know what your margins are, and I'm fairly certain from tallking to other dealers that you're not getting the extra margin in your till - so either American dealers are getting lower wholesale deals than UK dealers, or Duc are taking a hit on every US sale to maintain a profile on the street against Jap bikes......

This isn't a Duc dealer bashing thing - it's a 'bee in me bonnet' job - doesn't matter if it's bikes, cars, washing machines, petrol, cameras, probably even condoms .... just seems it's easy to shaft us Brits cos we put up with it ...... and, fantastic as the new Streetfighter bike looks, your going to struggle to get someone to even come into the shop, let alone sell one to them, if they think they are being shafted compared to elsewhere in the world.

Simple question - you know (and I do) most of the reasons why someone should buy a 1098 instead of an R1/Fireblade .... now, how much easier would your job be if Ducati provided them to you at a cost whereby you could price it at the same (£9k !) as the Jap stuff? ... and that's what happens in the States!

 

[Gizmo]

gotta agree with Bert, been offered enough jobs in the US to know that salaries there are comparably higher and even adding sales tax ( about 7%) prices are in no way as high as here.

Forex differences hardly comes into it, Ducati assemble from parts priced in many currencies including yen, US$, NT and Yuan, their labour costs will be in € as will some manufacture but those other currencies will move up and down as purchases and sales almost cancelling each other out depending upon percentage import/home. they'll probably have a duty exempt status for temporary import of parts (outside eu sourced) for assembly then re export which does help to reduce import duty for finished goods going into the US originating there (if any) but i'd assume they also have an additional costs in duty and shipping that we don't have as there is no duty between UK and Italy. Add in the 49 state bikes and extra work needed for homolgation in CA so in effect 2 models or every bike goes in as CA compliant with its extra bits and its another cost we don't have.

Part of the difference has to come from distributor margin/dealer margin, I know operating costs are lower in US so margins smaller but its not that great, i set our global bike business up and looked at costs in every major market, the UK is the highest by far but US ain't far behind.
We manufacture in the UK and export, in no other country is one of our products as cheap as it is in the UK if it has same distribution channel, the additional distributor margin needed to provide the legal aspects, country compliance, PL and warranty system always has a cost which results in a higher consumer price, it cannot be any different for the large businesses, they just use it to drive volumes.

I'd say the bikes are priced at what Ducati can compete at just to get volume in a large market, the volume lets them manufacture more cheaply so the overall price of a bike in the UK is actually lower than it would be without that market. Its a difficult balancing act keeping the brand exclusive, if they dropped prices here and attempted to increase volumes it would lose a lot of its appeal and they may end up not getting the increase so their strategy is probably correct unfortunately.

Ducati need to make margin somewhere, if you think the bikes are expensive here lok at other countries, I priced a 999S in Taiwan, 14K here almost 25K there!! Same bike, same spec low overhead for distributor/dealer.

 

[alane]

...if you lived in the states a Ducati would cost the same if not more than here when comparing an equivalent job / wage.
...

Like I said, I didn't wanna raise the $ vs £ debate again, but then, if you're saying that local market dictates the price, then why again are we paying more?
I think that quote says if the buyer is prepared to pay more then they will? Kind of supply and demand?

Streetfighter (back on thread), are they taking leaf out of the guy in germany (?) who built a 'streetfighter' from monster bits and it handled like no other?

 

[Gizmo]

"Thanks to information from a company insider, we can exclusively reveal that Ducati will be launching an all-new 1098-powered naked streetfighter at the EICMA show in November. The 2009 Ducati Fighter was presented to dealers last week to "stunned silence to the point of awkwardness." There's apparently a lot of confusion as to where the Fighter will fit in the Ducati lineup as it will be priced above the 2009 Ducati Monster 1100's $12,000 and closer to the Ducati 1198's $16,495. While the pricing has yet to be finalized, the Fighter is estimated to be in the $14-15,000 range.

The Aprilia Tuono, MV Agusta Brutale 1078RR, Benelli TnT rival will be powered by the outgoing 1099cc water-cooled V-twin from the 1098. That model is being replaced with the larger capacity 1198 for 2009. The Fighter will use a smaller airbox than the donor bike, so will make a little less than that model's 160bhp and 90.4lb/ft of torque.

The Fighter will use a steel trellis frame, as on the 1098, but will have a much more upright riding position. It uses a 1098-style tailpiece, but with dual stacked exhausts mounted on one side, shotgun-style.

We expect lower-gearing for punchier acceleration, making the Fighter a much more suitable bike for city riding than the 1098, but it should retain that model's fully-adjustable USD forks and Showa monoshock for excellent handling. We don't know if the Fighter uses a single-sided swingarm.

The Fighter marks a shift in thinking for Ducati's naked range. The Monster will now use air-cooled engines only (the water-cooled engines won't fit in the new frame) and will remain relatively affordable. The high-end segment of the naked market will now be solely covered by the Fighter.

This marks the third new Ducati model that we've been able to exclusively unveil in the last two weeks. In case you haven't already seen it, make sure you check out our coverage of the 2009 Ducati 1198; 2009 Ducati Monster 1100 and 1100S; and our by-the-numbers comparison of the 1198 with the rest of the 2009 superbikes.

The Fighter will be launched at EICMA on November 4th or 5th. We'll bring you official info and images then.
"

 

[Bert3]

Does make more sense (to me anyway) - the Monster will be the 'normal' ride anywhere bike, and so make use of the excellent punchier 2 valve air cooled engines; then if you want a hooligan tool that's not as easy in traffic, but out-accelerates sports bikes everywhere bar on the track, there'll be the water-cooled fighters; and if you really must have a track refugee, there's the superbikes .......

....and leaves the Hyper as the oddball for those who want a bike that looks like it could do green lanes but can't, and daresn't stray more than 40 miles from a petrol pump .. and you know what, if it had a larger tank, the Hyper's the one I'd go for - what does that say about my mental stability

 

[Steve748]

The exhaust manufacturers will love this so they can make underseat exhausts for it, there is going to be one hell of a big hole on the left side!

 

[Gizmo]

spotted elsewhere and supposed to be lifted from next months inmoto magazine?? could be another photoshop job as the 1198 text in the blue bar on first page looks a bit odd

What it says in Italian:

1198: The highest level of performance for a sportbike. There is also a street fighter (also see pic).

1198: Same displacement at the R 1.198 cm^3
170 hp (up 6-7 hp)
should accelerate much quicker than the 1098
No other changes compared to the 1098 other than colors.

Street Fighter: 1098 cc, small wind screen, and dual exhaust

 

[Steve748]

There is gonna be one hellava big gap looking at it from the left side above the rear wheel :thumbsdown:

 

[Martin Ducati Glasgow]

Ha ha ha:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: !!!

C'mon fellas, you're not really believing that photoshop sh*te are you?!?!?

Altered pics of a faired 1098 and some cut and paste jobbie of a 1098 with no fairing on!!!!

Possible new bikes or not, do you really think Ducati would release pics and showcase new bikes and new models in a magazine and steal their own thunder from the Milan show???

The rumour mill will be going nuts until Ducati decide to "announce" the story.

Just like the "snapped" Monster 1100 pics, do you also think someone was just lucky to get some pics outside the factory at night?

Mart

 

[weeian]

chinese whispers . . . . . amazing what they can do with photoshop ehh. i wish it wasnt so true about the 848s tho

 

[Gizmo]

i'd agree Martin, the biggest give away is the 1198 bit, given that Ducati use the 1098 as the model name even on the 1098 R which is actually 1198 it makes no sense to swap it on the S unless they drop the R .....

The problem is if they've launched to dealers there's always one dealer that leaks the info hence the Fighter bit this started with, after that its a game to work out if what follows is true or not only a few weeks to Milan but I'd bet MCN run a story with snippets the week before as press day at Milan is Monday and unless they get a heads up they'll miss that wednesday's comic and EMAP won't be happy.....

 

[Martin Ducati Glasgow]

i'd agree Martin, the biggest give away is the 1198 bit, given that Ducati use the 1098 as the model name even on the 1098 R which is actually 1198 it makes no sense to swap it on the S unless they drop the R .....

The problem is if they've launched to dealers there's always one dealer that leaks the info hence the Fighter bit this started with, after that its a game to work out if what follows is true or not only a few weeks to Milan but I'd bet MCN run a story with snippets the week before as press day at Milan is Monday and unless they get a heads up they'll miss that wednesday's comic and EMAP won't be happy.....

As far as I know, nothing has been launched to the dealers!! Despite all the rumours!!

Coz i'm going to the meeting where any new product will be shown and it isn't for a couple of weeks yet!!!!!

But those pics are defo a load of junk and that "Streetfighter" pic is a joke!!!

Mart

 

[Gizmo]

As far as I know, nothing has been launched to the dealers!! Despite all the rumours!!

Coz i'm going to the meeting where any new product will be shown and it isn't for a couple of weeks yet!!!!!

But those pics are defo a load of junk and that "Streetfighter" pic is a joke!!!

Mart

Have the US dealers had their NPP yet?

Just checked the CA homologation site and still no certification for Fighter or anything bigger than a 1099cc for 09 so either no 1098 R spec in California or they are holding the homologation back till after Milan

 

[Martin Ducati Glasgow]

Have the US dealers had their NPP yet?

Not as far as i'm aware. At this stage I would suspect the senior subsidiary staff will be well aware of new models but that info is fairly classified.

From what I know, the entire global dealer network sees the new models at the Milan Conference at the same time immediately prior to them going on display to the public.
During that meeting we will also be shown a huge amount of info over two days from global performance figures and sales trends to next year's plans.

None of the dealers get sneak previews as far as I know. Certainly not in the UK anyway. That would be suicidal. Someone, somewhere would blab something! Everyone knows that would happen. There is too much stock of value in the dealers to just blab about new product.

As I said above, the factory choose the right timing as to when to 'leak' info to the press in most cases.

Mart

 

[Gizmo]

yup, i can see the problem but given where they are in the pre show marketing game there is already a lot of stuuff dne, to have a brochure for Milan the studio shots would need doing weeks ago, same thing with road/track so photographers/circuit folk and more see that, the images get passed to graphic designers/web designers for layout, add in proof readers for every language and thats a lot of folk with access. I'm 2 weeks away from our dealer presentation and even if we drop brochures in on the day before we launch it still takes 2 weeks for the print/proof, the printer has access to all of that. I put ours to bed on Thursday by which time I know at least one or 2 dealers had seen odd pages