239desmo
Is it nearly bedtime?
True...........but sadly looks better than the Ducati.
TBH I thought the white highlighted all the "problems".
More rumours of a 1098 engined naked Fighter
- Thread starter Gizmo
- Start date
True...........but sadly looks better than the Ducati.
TBH I thought the white highlighted all the "problems".
M
Mad Dash
Just visiting
I agree with Derek, underseat exhausts would have HELPED. Wee bit disappointed, like someone metioned (Derek again ??) Ducati have always been the trend SETTERS, the masters of style, the creators of ICONS.
This machine STINKS of a product RUSHED to market to fill what is perceived as a need. The price too has me scratching my head, we're about to have the worst year in living memory, yes 2009 will be worse than 2008, and I think Ducati have over priced that bike significantly.
I also hear that price increases through the range are planned... BRAVE.
What I think is very interesting is that the majority do NOT like the Streetfighter... you'd expect a 50/50 split, look at the 999... it has it's critics, it has it's fans... the Streetfighter seems alone in this world.
Time will tell, maybe Martin's right, maybe in the "flesh" it's stunning... not holding my breath right enough.
This machine STINKS of a product RUSHED to market to fill what is perceived as a need. The price too has me scratching my head, we're about to have the worst year in living memory, yes 2009 will be worse than 2008, and I think Ducati have over priced that bike significantly.
I also hear that price increases through the range are planned... BRAVE.
What I think is very interesting is that the majority do NOT like the Streetfighter... you'd expect a 50/50 split, look at the 999... it has it's critics, it has it's fans... the Streetfighter seems alone in this world.
Time will tell, maybe Martin's right, maybe in the "flesh" it's stunning... not holding my breath right enough.
M
Mad Dash
Just visiting
Gizmo
Forum Geek
The biggest issue will be the price, I can't se it selling to many existing Ducati fans, its not aimed at us, its for Tuono and SuperDuke owners looking for the next toy, imagine the scenario as they wander into a Ducati dealer to part ex their 1 or 2 year old bike, "OK sir, new SF 11K, we'll give you 4K p/ex for the Tuono so thats a balance of 7K to pay "or you can pop down the road and pick up a new Tuono for about 7K and still have your old one.....
its almost lke the sales and marketing team have identified a new area where Ducati need a bike ( 10 years too late) and with no-one prepared to stand up and say its sh1t in meetings its gone through to production at a stupid price, at least when the likes of PT were there they'ed fight for what they beleived and when they wanted would turn up in a meeting with things like the HM and show people what could be.
I have yet to see a truly positive comment on it across many forums, the 1198 backlash has now started as well, maybe its the first time the new management team have to face criticism and its going to be a big test....
its almost lke the sales and marketing team have identified a new area where Ducati need a bike ( 10 years too late) and with no-one prepared to stand up and say its sh1t in meetings its gone through to production at a stupid price, at least when the likes of PT were there they'ed fight for what they beleived and when they wanted would turn up in a meeting with things like the HM and show people what could be.
I have yet to see a truly positive comment on it across many forums, the 1198 backlash has now started as well, maybe its the first time the new management team have to face criticism and its going to be a big test....
M
Mad Dash
Just visiting
I haven't started on that yet... I feel robbed by Ducati YET AGAIN to be honest here guys, I get raped (apologies for using that word) with a 999R and now the 1098 is the "old model". As I'm constantly being told, "Japs update yearly", YES, but an R1 is a R1 with tweaks and GSX1000R is still a GSX1000R.... the 1098 is NOW GONE, it's not a tweak.
Of course, will I get "well the 1198's out now...." when I go to sell the 1098R.
I will quantify all that by saying I LOVE the 1098R, it's lightyears ahead of the 999R... and I mean LIGHTYEARS.
For me, I have lost faith in Ducati again, and I walked the last time that happened
.
Dave G
New member
I must admit to finding that way of thinking a bit baffling Stuart, just because a firm has released a new model of bike doesn't make yours any less fantastic than it was when you got it, I see that way of thinking with the GSXR pub jockeys who only buy the latest toy as a sort of oneupmanship fashion statement,usually bought on the release of statistics and hp figures etc., which most buyers cant even use half of,on the road or track.
I still have my S2R 800 and am happy with it,the fact the 1000 was brought out the next year wasn't an issue for me,would I have bought that version if given the choice?, I honestly dont know as there are advantages to both. I like my SC too, dont really care that Ducati have brought out a black one or may bring out one with more sorted suspension,that way of looking at things is bound to have you thinking your missing out on something and leave you feeling unsatisfied with any puchase knowing it will be updated at some stage in the future.
I still have my S2R 800 and am happy with it,the fact the 1000 was brought out the next year wasn't an issue for me,would I have bought that version if given the choice?, I honestly dont know as there are advantages to both. I like my SC too, dont really care that Ducati have brought out a black one or may bring out one with more sorted suspension,that way of looking at things is bound to have you thinking your missing out on something and leave you feeling unsatisfied with any puchase knowing it will be updated at some stage in the future.
1098 arrival
I kept my Jan 07 copy of bike magazine as it had interviews with all the top Ducati guys supporting Bike magazine's review of the new 1098 machine.
I have just read through it again , everybody gushing about the design proces and time to market .It is incredible That barely two years on they have launched an 1198 standard version.
Why no 848 S I ask ???
It is even more incredible, imho, that they can think there is a market for a plug ugly, granted photo driven opinion, naked bike for £11k when the market place is full of very competent nakeds for £7k.
Fireblades, GSXR 1000's don't excite in the same way as Ducati does but maybe the price is right.
p.s.
some good deals going on Benellis.
I kept my Jan 07 copy of bike magazine as it had interviews with all the top Ducati guys supporting Bike magazine's review of the new 1098 machine.
I have just read through it again , everybody gushing about the design proces and time to market .It is incredible That barely two years on they have launched an 1198 standard version.
Why no 848 S I ask ???
It is even more incredible, imho, that they can think there is a market for a plug ugly, granted photo driven opinion, naked bike for £11k when the market place is full of very competent nakeds for £7k.
Fireblades, GSXR 1000's don't excite in the same way as Ducati does but maybe the price is right.
p.s.
some good deals going on Benellis.
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M
Mad Dash
Just visiting
Dave, allow the honour of being blunt then - trade a 18 month old £21,000 999R in an get £10.500 for it, that might explain my way of thinking.
YES, the obvious way to avoid that is keep the bike - but Ducati WANT people like me that trade in 18-24 months, keep them liquid.
And, as I've stated MANY times, the 1098R is an AWESOME bike, no issues with the bike...
Hope that covers my angle
239desmo
Is it nearly bedtime?
Ducati has a real identity crisis on their hands I believe nowadays.
In the past the buyers bought for technology, performance looks and sounds.
Most importantly you bought a Ducati because you wanted to be different.
Now the brand is being marketed as "cool" and seems to be chasing every possible market gap. Perhaps a motocrosser is next on the agenda?
If you are left chasing numbers all the fan base that bought to be different will walk. They don't want to turn up at a meet with a dozen other identical bikes.
The people who buy to be cool will only buy as long as it is seen as cool.
If the fashion changes they will have no loyalty whatsoever.
People will pay a premium to be different.
They don't want to pay an extra £4k for a bike that looks like and performs like something they can buy in a Japanese showroom.
Interesting comparison came up in a conversation I had with someone on here was "If Ducati made cars who would they be?"
Both of us agreed on who it was.
Worringly for the factory should be the fact that people like Mad Dash, who is relatively new to the cause, but has put his money where his mouth is on several occasions in the last few years is getting jittery over this.
If he has concerns what hope have they with less than committed owners?
In the past the buyers bought for technology, performance looks and sounds.
Most importantly you bought a Ducati because you wanted to be different.
Now the brand is being marketed as "cool" and seems to be chasing every possible market gap. Perhaps a motocrosser is next on the agenda?
If you are left chasing numbers all the fan base that bought to be different will walk. They don't want to turn up at a meet with a dozen other identical bikes.
The people who buy to be cool will only buy as long as it is seen as cool.
If the fashion changes they will have no loyalty whatsoever.
People will pay a premium to be different.
They don't want to pay an extra £4k for a bike that looks like and performs like something they can buy in a Japanese showroom.
Interesting comparison came up in a conversation I had with someone on here was "If Ducati made cars who would they be?"
Both of us agreed on who it was.
Worringly for the factory should be the fact that people like Mad Dash, who is relatively new to the cause, but has put his money where his mouth is on several occasions in the last few years is getting jittery over this.
If he has concerns what hope have they with less than committed owners?
M
Mad Dash
Just visiting
my heart says Ferrari, my head says Lada
What we as Ducati enthusiasts have to realise is all the stuff we liked about Ducati has changed 916 etc were just awesome, but hard to compete with the masses of Jap cr4p about. Ducati are trying to spread its wings and make differing variants of types of bikes to attract a diff. kind of customer.. What they've found is that a Monster has been its best seller & may I say its saviour too. Without it Ducati would have dwindled against the Japs. I poss. wouldn't buy jap bike. Some of them are nice (to look at only IE RC45 etc). In the turmoil of the current credit crunch everybody has to cut there teeth & make a living, even if that means adding new naked bikes or changing the Sports bikes. If you really wanted 1 you'd still buy 1, even if it were a 2nd hand 1.
From pic's the black SF looks really good. I can see what all the comments are on about, in red its just average too much Tuono-ish for me. In white its too Triumph SpeedTriple-ish.
I'm told that they are much better in the flesh too and it was mentioned that my Hyper would be swapped as the SF would suit me more. Well the jury is out on that 1. Well atleast till Friday at 10.30am Milan time. I'm beginning to enjoy the Hyper more than I thought. Yes its completely diff. to the sports bikes of a 1098/1198 etc which I grew up riding. I'm not convinced I'd buy the SF, like all bikes I'd have to ride it for a long weekend and then see. I wasn't so sure about the Hyper at 1st, then 12months down the line I bought 1.
Like a another thread mention (Gizmo) Ducati are after the KTM Superduke/ Tuono & Speed Triple market, to name a few to add to the collection.
I agree with Mad Dash the 1098R is a stunningly awesome bike, the confidence I get when riding it is infectous. However at some point it'll be just average when the next newest R rolls out of the Factory.
For all those who feel that the 1198S is the same as a 1098R. You need to RTFM's....
From pic's the black SF looks really good. I can see what all the comments are on about, in red its just average too much Tuono-ish for me. In white its too Triumph SpeedTriple-ish.
I'm told that they are much better in the flesh too and it was mentioned that my Hyper would be swapped as the SF would suit me more. Well the jury is out on that 1. Well atleast till Friday at 10.30am Milan time. I'm beginning to enjoy the Hyper more than I thought. Yes its completely diff. to the sports bikes of a 1098/1198 etc which I grew up riding. I'm not convinced I'd buy the SF, like all bikes I'd have to ride it for a long weekend and then see. I wasn't so sure about the Hyper at 1st, then 12months down the line I bought 1.
Like a another thread mention (Gizmo) Ducati are after the KTM Superduke/ Tuono & Speed Triple market, to name a few to add to the collection.
I agree with Mad Dash the 1098R is a stunningly awesome bike, the confidence I get when riding it is infectous. However at some point it'll be just average when the next newest R rolls out of the Factory.
For all those who feel that the 1198S is the same as a 1098R. You need to RTFM's....
69jme69
New member
I LOVE the 1098R, it's lightyears ahead of the 999R... and I mean LIGHTYEARS.
I have lost faith in Ducati again, and I walked the last time that happened
sorry if im pointing out the obvious Stuart...but is that not "cutting off your nose to spite your face" :dunno:
But i realise you earn your money and how and what you doo with it is your business and nobody elses......fair play to ye :finger:
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Dave G
New member
I suppose the root of my query is,why do you need to change bikes so soon?
In 1997 I was looking around for a bike and in the showroom was a second hand RC45 for about 7000,the same price as a new fireblade, my only regret being I went for the new bike instead of the one that was more than twice that price a year and half previously, someone had paid a huge amount for a bike that they then passed on for a song before even an MOT had been issued on it.
You'll take that hit proportionately on whatever machine you buy,car or bike, if you then px it such a short time later, surely you must realise that when you buy it
.A Ducati is for life,not just for Christmas.
Martin Ducati Glasgow
New member
Just checked to see if I was on a Ducati forum there!!
For what it's worth, my opinion is formed as a passionate motorcyclist first and a dealer second. I've been riding bikes for 24 years and i'm pretty sure I know what I like in a new bike by now.
As soon as I saw the Fighter I was thrilled as both a biker and with my business head. Both say very good things to me and everyone else that I have spoken to from Milan to Scotland agrees until I get home to this Ducati forum (strangely)!!
It's look, stance and design are 100% purposeful, it's an incredible piece of kit. They set out to create something unique and they have. Sorry but to compare it to a Tuono is laughable - a Tuono is not even in the same league! Right now there is NOTHING out there can can touch the Fighter for torque, power, weight, componentry - nothing!! Your KTM and Tuono owners will take a very serious look at this bike next year - I promise you!
There is feck all about this bike that looks rushed at all. It is immaculately assembled with some clever design touches. (And not designed by a team Michael, I spoke to the designer himself). Even the plastics on the underside of the seat really close in and finish even the underside of the bike. They make it look so solid and substantial but still remain sleek and slim.
There are virtually no parts that transfer from 1098 to Fighter (which obviously would have been cheaper / quicker). This is a full new bike completely designed from the ground up, different frame (26 deg steering angle), swingarm (35mm longer) subframe, tank, seat unit, headlight, radiator, oil cooler - A whole brace of new technology in this package.
And on the S - traction control, Ohlins, acres of carbon, I don't know how anyone can think that the £12,8K price is way over the top!!! A 999S was £13,995 when it was released 6 years ago.
The headlight is a complex shaped item with LED lights as well as a traditional bulb. It doesn't seem to photograph well but the angles on it are impressive. I'm sure it's obvious to everyone it shows a family resemblence to the Superbike - but that is the whole idea!!!! In the flesh it doesn't look like a Hyper either.
And you won't believe how small and slim the bike is, it is only just wider than the chassis at the widest point (excluding pipes which although look big in the pics, aren't at all). 155bhp, 85 ftlbs, 167kg too - I mean it is going to be a flying machine!!! I honestly can't wait!
As to Ducati having lost there way or having an identity crisis - sorry, you are entirely off on the wrong foot there, they've never had a more clear and focused direction. It is sooooo evident in everything they are doing. The focus and drive is impressive. I've never had such a strong lineup of bikes to sell. And I can assure you, they've never been so well put together as right now.
All the new generation of bikes are class leading weight, class leading brakes, class leading componentry, class leading power, class leading electronics, production traction control (we only saw this 2 years ago in GP!!!) and more! I mean, what else do you think can be done?!!!
The market is speaking here, in fact shouting loudly. To ignore it is impossible and downright stupid. Globally (almost) all motorcyle markets have dropped significantly. Ducati have bucked the trend and sold 44,000 motorcyles this year. An increase of 10%. Not mainstream 10 million like Honda. Still niche and exclusive. With even more of the passion I love. They're just doing it better now!
But here are the facts - Ducati are building a premuim quality product that increasing numbers of customers want to buy. They have not lost their way, they have found a new direction that clearly works. Like the new designs or not, the numbers just don't lie.
I'm so passionate because this is a manufacturer that is daring to take on the big boys in a brave, unique and ultra passionate way, I love the approach. It's just like mine!!!
I might be on my own with my opinions on this thread but they're not going to change. I've seen too much of the Ducati family - i'm hooked.
Mart
P.S. when you see the Streetfighter in the flesh - I bet you're gonna love it!
For what it's worth, my opinion is formed as a passionate motorcyclist first and a dealer second. I've been riding bikes for 24 years and i'm pretty sure I know what I like in a new bike by now.
As soon as I saw the Fighter I was thrilled as both a biker and with my business head. Both say very good things to me and everyone else that I have spoken to from Milan to Scotland agrees until I get home to this Ducati forum (strangely)!!
It's look, stance and design are 100% purposeful, it's an incredible piece of kit. They set out to create something unique and they have. Sorry but to compare it to a Tuono is laughable - a Tuono is not even in the same league! Right now there is NOTHING out there can can touch the Fighter for torque, power, weight, componentry - nothing!! Your KTM and Tuono owners will take a very serious look at this bike next year - I promise you!
There is feck all about this bike that looks rushed at all. It is immaculately assembled with some clever design touches. (And not designed by a team Michael, I spoke to the designer himself). Even the plastics on the underside of the seat really close in and finish even the underside of the bike. They make it look so solid and substantial but still remain sleek and slim.
There are virtually no parts that transfer from 1098 to Fighter (which obviously would have been cheaper / quicker). This is a full new bike completely designed from the ground up, different frame (26 deg steering angle), swingarm (35mm longer) subframe, tank, seat unit, headlight, radiator, oil cooler - A whole brace of new technology in this package.
And on the S - traction control, Ohlins, acres of carbon, I don't know how anyone can think that the £12,8K price is way over the top!!! A 999S was £13,995 when it was released 6 years ago.
The headlight is a complex shaped item with LED lights as well as a traditional bulb. It doesn't seem to photograph well but the angles on it are impressive. I'm sure it's obvious to everyone it shows a family resemblence to the Superbike - but that is the whole idea!!!! In the flesh it doesn't look like a Hyper either.
And you won't believe how small and slim the bike is, it is only just wider than the chassis at the widest point (excluding pipes which although look big in the pics, aren't at all). 155bhp, 85 ftlbs, 167kg too - I mean it is going to be a flying machine!!! I honestly can't wait!
As to Ducati having lost there way or having an identity crisis - sorry, you are entirely off on the wrong foot there, they've never had a more clear and focused direction. It is sooooo evident in everything they are doing. The focus and drive is impressive. I've never had such a strong lineup of bikes to sell. And I can assure you, they've never been so well put together as right now.
All the new generation of bikes are class leading weight, class leading brakes, class leading componentry, class leading power, class leading electronics, production traction control (we only saw this 2 years ago in GP!!!) and more! I mean, what else do you think can be done?!!!
The market is speaking here, in fact shouting loudly. To ignore it is impossible and downright stupid. Globally (almost) all motorcyle markets have dropped significantly. Ducati have bucked the trend and sold 44,000 motorcyles this year. An increase of 10%. Not mainstream 10 million like Honda. Still niche and exclusive. With even more of the passion I love. They're just doing it better now!
But here are the facts - Ducati are building a premuim quality product that increasing numbers of customers want to buy. They have not lost their way, they have found a new direction that clearly works. Like the new designs or not, the numbers just don't lie.
I'm so passionate because this is a manufacturer that is daring to take on the big boys in a brave, unique and ultra passionate way, I love the approach. It's just like mine!!!
I might be on my own with my opinions on this thread but they're not going to change. I've seen too much of the Ducati family - i'm hooked.
Mart
P.S. when you see the Streetfighter in the flesh - I bet you're gonna love it!
ducati girl
New member
Having looked at the piccie on another site..........I will reserve full judgement until I see it in the flesh - but I don't like what I see from the pics.
I don't like how the tank looks fairly high in relation to the handlebars, I hate the front end, the reservoirs on the handlebars look all wrong - I dont like both pipes on one side - the Ducati sound is different in my opinion when heard on monsters, erm there my 2p worth
I don't like how the tank looks fairly high in relation to the handlebars, I hate the front end, the reservoirs on the handlebars look all wrong - I dont like both pipes on one side - the Ducati sound is different in my opinion when heard on monsters, erm there my 2p worth
Gizmo
Forum Geek
Martin please, its not just here, check these out
http://www.italiansportingclub.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=2204&PID=22363#22363
http://www.ducatisti.co.uk/forum/du...g-hot-new-ducati-streetfighter-india-com.html
http://www.ducatisti.co.uk/forum/ducati-streetfighter-1098/23624-streetfighter-spotted-pics.html
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=53979
need i go on?? the reaction is, how shall we say it?? mixed, actually its not even mixed its negative. ok that is based off photos but surely Ducati know how to take the studio shots?? Actually they don't the shots Petzi posted here gave far more idea of the shape and form that the press kit, maybe they just need to sack the photographer
As regards design, yes it may have a "designer" but when i think of Ducati I think Taglioni, Tamburini, Galuzzi, Terblanche i even know the likes of Robbiano who only worked on the 916 and i can say wth 100% certainty that the "designer" responsible for the 1098 or SF will never be held in anywhere near the same esteem as i put on them, come to think of it no-one even knows who the new designers are... Its also a team, the designer reacts to input from sales, marketing and production, its only when one has a proven track record that one gets the freedom to create and present without that, thats what all those names i just mentioned had but even PT was forced to alter design on the 999 when the Corse stepped in and insisted on a twinsided swingarm, i really don't believe the SF designer had a lot of freedom, the direction and limits were set by others.
As regards mainstream they now most certainly are, they are now chasing trends not creating them, looking for volume instead of waiting for it to come to them taking the Japs on in a battle they don't need to fight, if they do they get those volumes they become Aprilia!.
TBH I'm heading towards not even being that bothered any longer, I've now accepted my place in Ducati ownership, I love my SC, its a wonderful bit of kit that I know will remain unique, Ducati ain't got the balls to do stuff like that again and only NCR and Bimota come close but its not like they are that common. I know many here are like me, we'll love our bikes, see no need to have the latest and greatest so possibly aren't whats going to keep Ducati afloat but for me owning Italian bikes isn't just about the bike, its the fellow owners one meets and gets on with, thats what makes it special, when you get old fans who kept the faith and now are pushed aside you lose more than just sales! the fact thst we are here, debating this, customers, dealer, fans shows what its all about, i don't think the last yamasukida gets quite the same debate
I appreciate the commercial realities of all of this, I know its hard for solus dealers and what the Ducati store business model requires in commitment from its dealer and can see your position with only Ducati to sell one has to believe but I'd hope that you also pass the feedback back to them, I'd think initial sales orders might be all they need to work it out though....
In some ways i hope the SF does work but conversly it could be the model that makes someone stop and think at Ducati .....
http://www.italiansportingclub.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=2204&PID=22363#22363
http://www.ducatisti.co.uk/forum/du...g-hot-new-ducati-streetfighter-india-com.html
http://www.ducatisti.co.uk/forum/ducati-streetfighter-1098/23624-streetfighter-spotted-pics.html
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=53979
need i go on?? the reaction is, how shall we say it?? mixed, actually its not even mixed its negative. ok that is based off photos but surely Ducati know how to take the studio shots?? Actually they don't the shots Petzi posted here gave far more idea of the shape and form that the press kit, maybe they just need to sack the photographer
As regards design, yes it may have a "designer" but when i think of Ducati I think Taglioni, Tamburini, Galuzzi, Terblanche i even know the likes of Robbiano who only worked on the 916 and i can say wth 100% certainty that the "designer" responsible for the 1098 or SF will never be held in anywhere near the same esteem as i put on them, come to think of it no-one even knows who the new designers are... Its also a team, the designer reacts to input from sales, marketing and production, its only when one has a proven track record that one gets the freedom to create and present without that, thats what all those names i just mentioned had but even PT was forced to alter design on the 999 when the Corse stepped in and insisted on a twinsided swingarm, i really don't believe the SF designer had a lot of freedom, the direction and limits were set by others.
As regards mainstream they now most certainly are, they are now chasing trends not creating them, looking for volume instead of waiting for it to come to them taking the Japs on in a battle they don't need to fight, if they do they get those volumes they become Aprilia!.
TBH I'm heading towards not even being that bothered any longer, I've now accepted my place in Ducati ownership, I love my SC, its a wonderful bit of kit that I know will remain unique, Ducati ain't got the balls to do stuff like that again and only NCR and Bimota come close but its not like they are that common. I know many here are like me, we'll love our bikes, see no need to have the latest and greatest so possibly aren't whats going to keep Ducati afloat but for me owning Italian bikes isn't just about the bike, its the fellow owners one meets and gets on with, thats what makes it special, when you get old fans who kept the faith and now are pushed aside you lose more than just sales! the fact thst we are here, debating this, customers, dealer, fans shows what its all about, i don't think the last yamasukida gets quite the same debate
I appreciate the commercial realities of all of this, I know its hard for solus dealers and what the Ducati store business model requires in commitment from its dealer and can see your position with only Ducati to sell one has to believe but I'd hope that you also pass the feedback back to them, I'd think initial sales orders might be all they need to work it out though....
In some ways i hope the SF does work but conversly it could be the model that makes someone stop and think at Ducati .....
M
Mad Dash
Just visiting
A Ducati is for life,not just for Christmas.
That is very true Dave, and depreciation therefore is spread over a much longer period... however, who does Martin prefer, YOU or ME (buying styles only here
), and the Ducati machine is designed and geared around changing 18-24 months.... I wonder what their average is.But to endorse what you're saying, and for the EXACT reasons above, I'll not be changing anything in 2009... unless it's to another brand. My loyalty to the brand, and a peek inside my garage will indicate this loyalty... is to Martin at DG and not DUCATI. Some may find that surprising, but I'll 100% guarantee that is Ducati Glasgow gave up Ducati and took on board Kawasaki, I'd have a ZX10R, becuase it's the PEOPLE I'm loyal to and NOT the brand. It's just a coincedence that right now Martin and DG have the BEST store and the BEST bikes... Please don't fcuk that up DUCATI
Does that make sense ???
M
Mad Dash
Just visiting
Martin Post
I was going to quote Martins post but the DuN site has a text limit of 1,456,876 word per thread
I for one have wound the neck in re Streetfighter, becuase I haven't seen it, so I'll shut up until I see it......
1198 - 1098... I've printed off all the comments from Michael, Martin and myself on the 1098/1198 and we'll see in the coming months who's right and who's wrong.
One thing I absolutely cannot fault Martin for (and he does have faults, trust me)... is his PASSION to the brand.
Right, I'm off again into forum hybernation - see you all tonight at DuN or Sunday at the Fish shop
Oh, and both Martins and Gizmo's post have valid points, thanked BOTH.
I was going to quote Martins post but the DuN site has a text limit of 1,456,876 word per thread
I for one have wound the neck in re Streetfighter, becuase I haven't seen it, so I'll shut up until I see it......
1198 - 1098... I've printed off all the comments from Michael, Martin and myself on the 1098/1198 and we'll see in the coming months who's right and who's wrong.
One thing I absolutely cannot fault Martin for (and he does have faults, trust me)... is his PASSION to the brand.
Right, I'm off again into forum hybernation - see you all tonight at DuN or Sunday at the Fish shop
Oh, and both Martins and Gizmo's post have valid points, thanked BOTH.
GaryO
Member
I’ve had a good look at the pics of the Streetfighter and contrary to the majority of opinion on here I think it looks ace ! It looks mean, purposeful and packs one hell of a punch. Can’t wait to see it in the flesh!
With regards to Ducati and the way forward, in my business you embrace change, however painful initially, (I'm about to find that out) and see the positives. Loyalty to a brand is never an easy ride, literally.
Well that’s how I feel about the current situation anyway. :thumbs:
Semper Fi
Can’t wait to see it in the flesh! With regards to Ducati and the way forward, in my business you embrace change, however painful initially, (I'm about to find that out) and see the positives. Loyalty to a brand is never an easy ride, literally.
Well that’s how I feel about the current situation anyway. :thumbs:
Semper Fi
thanks mart and gizmo for their views ! i think everyone can put out his personal view out of that. the 'truth' is probably something in between.
anyway, honestly i was shocked when i first saw the pics of the sf. meanwhile i'm curious to see the bike in real at my dealer (the s will come in april 09) to get my own opinion. if this bike is something for my garage i will decide in autmn 09 when they'll present the streetfighter 1198 s
anyway, honestly i was shocked when i first saw the pics of the sf. meanwhile i'm curious to see the bike in real at my dealer (the s will come in april 09) to get my own opinion. if this bike is something for my garage i will decide in autmn 09 when they'll present the streetfighter 1198 s
bobsyeruncle
Well-known member
And you bought a friggin' Harley?
bobsyeruncle
Well-known member
I think it looks absolutely brilliant. It would be the perfect replacement for my 996 when the aches and pains become unbearable!
The only problem that I have with it is...
The only problem that I have with it is...
I can't afford it!
M
Mad Dash
Just visiting
And you bought a friggin' Harley?
No that's factually incorrect, I bought the Harley when I had the Ducati then tried to ride it like a Duacti
A v-rod on the Dukes pass was always going to end in tears When I lost faith in Ducati I went back to my previous love, KAWASAKI... remember the Scotbike days, GPz750, Gpz 750 Turbo... yep...
So I bought the new ZX10R..... and after scaring myself sh1tless, went back to Ducati and bought a 999R
Martin Ducati Glasgow
New member
That is very true Dave, and depreciation therefore is spread over a much longer period... however, who does Martin prefer, YOU or ME (buying styles only here
But to endorse what you're saying, and for the EXACT reasons above, I'll not be changing anything in 2009... unless it's to another brand. My loyalty to the brand, and a peek inside my garage will indicate this loyalty... is to Martin at DG and not DUCATI. Some may find that surprising, but I'll 100% guarantee that is Ducati Glasgow gave up Ducati and took on board Kawasaki, I'd have a ZX10R, becuase it's the PEOPLE I'm loyal to and NOT the brand. It's just a coincedence that right now Martin and DG have the BEST store and the BEST bikes... Please don't fcuk that up DUCATI
Does that make sense ???
Jeez Stu!
Thank you very very much for this comment! I'm speechless!:hail:
Mart
Martin Ducati Glasgow
New member
I've been thinking a lot about this over today.
D'ya know Michael - with the absolute greatest of respect for you and your opinion which of course you are entitled to. :hail:
I just don't get where you are coming from. I honestly don't! Please allow me to elaborate!
I know you haven't got a good word to say about Ducati or what they do and it's been that way for a while but I still just don't understand why. I just don't agree with your views and how you reach your conclusions.
I honestly don't think Ducati could do anything to please you. And I wish for both our sakes they could. You seem incredibly bitter towards them and I just don't get why?
I'm not being argumentative, aggressive or accusational here, i'm honestly really puzzled.You blame Ducati becoming mainstream - to me they're clearly just not, 44,000 isn't mainstream. They are showing good growth but that is what a business needs. In this day and climate we know that more than ever.
You blame design and designers - but you don't give new blood the chance to shine, you dismiss the design before even finding out who did them! If it's not someone like PT, you're very closed toward it. Everything these guys turn out is not the icon a 916 was! That's impossible!
You quote Tamburini and Terreblanche leading design. Tamburini used a Honda (NR 750) for the main design elements of the iconic 916 - he did it far better, with flair and vision rarely seen but those elements are all there. Fox eye headlights, single sided swinger - these are facts. As time goes on it is becoming more and more difficult to come up with absolute - never seen before, ground breaking designs.
Tamburini came up with more than most, Terreblanche didn't, i'm sorry for all of us about that fact but some of his are proven flops selling precious few in vibrant markets!! Not my opinion at all, like you I loved them and still do but the market is king and it spoke its mind to us. Just because you or I don't agree with it, we can't dismiss these facts.
You say you don't like sale 'teams' Terreblanche and Tamburini were just two of the men in that sales team at that time!?!?!
You blame the fact the design is sales lead - I mean honestly which motorcycle design (or just about any business) is not sales lead. You know as well as anyone, business is about sales - sales is about what people want - therefore business is about what people want. Bikes are designed to fulfill that!
They all design bikes to appeal to as many people as they can build bikes for. If they design something that doesn't sell, doesn't cover costs or pay the wages and bikes / parts are left over, that is considered a failure.
It's fair to expect some bitterness there too - that is a natural human response. The passionate customers that bought (including me) won't feel nice about it but as a loyal Ducatisti I look to the brand, not one model contained therein. I realise what happened as a business man and move on.
You want to stay ultra niche - but it has been shown that the difference between loss and profit with this brand is where we were with 999 and where we are now with 1098 and the future.
I don't understand what you want - the idea at the factory is to build bikes that sell and at the same time offer a premium customer experience making money doing it. What if they did something that you loved and it sold really well in numbers like the 1098, would you then change your mind and then dislike it suddenly because it was becoming too mainstream? - of course not that would be ridiculous!
You often talk about the latest and greatest not interesting you but that is exactly what the 999S was at exactly the time you had it! It was and still is one of the most advanced motorcycles of all time. It may not be whay you bought it but it was the reason for a huge number of people including me!
I promise you, from someone who talks to people on the inside, NOTHING is done at the factory without careful consideration. Product is brought to the market to support the dealers at the right time because it is us that feed them and we rely on the right product - i'm not doing this for nothing!
To conclude another long post (my apologies). I respect you have your opinion but I think you strongly defend a position that it seems is fuelled by a type of bitterness or anger I do not share and therefore cannot comprehend.
As we often do, we may have to agree to disagree but I thought for a while about this, really tried to get onto your page on the topic and just can't!:dunno:
I hope you understand the way sentiment behind this post. It is not designed to fuel an argument - just an explanation of my thoughts.:thumbs:
Mart
M
Mad Dash
Just visiting
can anyone teach me speed reading, Gizmo's quote with Martin's reply, I've been here all night...:scratchhead: