Three quarters of Diavel buyers are new to Ducati

miloVanMultistrada

miloVanMultistrada

Webmonkey
In the USA at least:

http://www.ducatinewstoday.com/2011/10/three-quarters-of-diavel-buyers-are-new-to-ducati/

Did the job it was designed to do?

Ducati must have been nervous as they introduced the Diavel this year, the model most distant from its sportbike roots. It turns out they needn’t have worried with more than 1,000 sold in the US so far this year with the great majority of buyers coming from other brands.

Ducati has weathered the global financial crisis well, introducing a slew of new models as it maintained its R&D investment despite a market slump. Consequently it has seen its fortunes rise as models targeted at new segments, always with a view to maintaing the Ducati performance essence, have lifted sales. The company is on track to sell 42,800 units by years end setting a new record.

Whilst sales of motorcycles 500cc and above have declined by 4.3% this year, Ducati is growing its market share with sales lifting by 19%. A large part of this success has come from the Multistrada 1200, the revised 848EVO and the new Diavel.

One thousand Diavels have been sold so far this year in the US and fully 74% of the buyers have come to Ducati for the first time from other brands. This is exactly what the company had in mind, the Diavel was always about expanding the presence of the Ducati brand rather than pandering to current loyalists. The Multi is also up 49% as this model begins to become a mainstay for the company. The revamped Monster series is also up 53% whilst the 848EVO has been a standout growing sales by 80%!
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Pict said:
Because the Diavel is so outside the ethos of Ducati.. :stir:
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Never mind the ethos, feel the profit ;)

Seriously though... how is the Diavel outside the ethos of Ducati? What is the Ducati ethos... is it desmo valves and trellis frames, or are they just solutions to specific engineering problems... Maybe the ethos is about performance, fun and innovation?
 
Nowt wrong with being Liquid Cooled

liquid-cooled.jpg


So good they named it twice ;)
 
I can understand why the Diavel's sold well in the States - a cruiser type of thing but one that handles. It struck me though that 1000 doesn't seem to be a huge number in a market that size. I was at DG one Saturday in May and there were 7 of them going out that morning....

I'm waiting for them to build a single (preferably aircooled!) - then I'll add to their new bike sales!
 
deputydawg said:
I'm waiting for them to build a single (preferably aircooled!) - then I'll add to their new bike sales!
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Seems a few like minded around but maybe once the penny drops that not everyone needs 200hp and 25mpg maybe we will see something.
My view is the Diavel shows they are prepared to go after sales rather than "traditional" markets so the chance of a single happening must increase with this strategy.
Odd thing is prices of Sport Classics are now better than when they were new as folk who are keen to buy something less cutting edge are migrating to them.
 
239desmo said:
Seems a few like minded around but maybe once the penny drops that not everyone needs 200hp and 25mpg maybe we will see something.
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Totally agree - when my 1.5 ton car gets better mpg than my 200kg bike (even if ridden like a Samaritan), I recon some changes are needed ahead.

Re: Diavels - yep, I'm new to Ducati too. I am the classic stereotype - grey haired, wants a bit better ergonomics, but only willing to sacrifice a smidgen of fast group pace to get it. I still wanna blast!
 
I think fuel economy on a bike like a Ducati (bought primarily as a toy, rather than day to day transport in most cases) is a red herring.

That said, the MTS1200 will happily return 40mpg+ running for extended periods at illegal speeds (allegedly), which is as good as any petrol car I've ever owned.
 
miloVanMultistrada said:
I think fuel economy on a bike like a Ducati (bought primarily as a toy, rather than day to day transport in most cases) is a red herring.
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I agree it has been up until now but times are changing and changing fast.
As fuel reserves run low fewer "toys" will be bought and when people have to pay the equivalent road tax on their fuel inefficient bike to that of a car watch the reaction!
Bikes have had an easy ride from road tax in last few years when you look at how fuel efficiency has improved in the 4 wheel department.
I bet within a few years this is all going to change.
 
239desmo said:
I agree it has been up until now but times are changing and changing fast.
As fuel reserves run low fewer "toys" will be bought and when people have to pay the equivalent road tax on their fuel inefficient bike to that of a car watch the reaction!
Bikes have had an easy ride from road tax in last few years when you look at how fuel efficiency has improved in the 4 wheel department.
I bet within a few years this is all going to change.
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But the fuel cost and the cost of road tax are trivial compared to the purchase cost and the depreciation, and when you consider how few miles the average bike does, fuel is an even smaller part of the equation. If you are buying a bike for riding pleasure - fuel economy won't be the biggest consideration, and might not even be part of the buying decision. Tyres will cost as much as fuel on a modern bike, (likely more on a sportsbike).

When you are buying something purely to get you from point A to point B - fuel economy plays more of a role, but even then, over the ownership of most privately owned cars, fuel still isn't that big a cost.

BTW - there will most certainly be some excellent, super-economical single cylinder engines coming out of Italy. It's just they'll all be fitted to Scooters! ;)
 
miloVanMultistrada said:
But the fuel cost and the cost of road tax are trivial compared to the purchase cost and the depreciation, and when you consider how few miles the average bike does, fuel is an even smaller part of the equation. If you are buying a bike for riding pleasure - fuel economy won't be the biggest consideration, and might not even be part of the buying decision. Tyres will cost as much as fuel on a modern bike, (likely more on a sportsbike).

When you are buying something purely to get you from point A to point B - fuel economy plays more of a role, but even then, over the ownership of most privately owned cars, fuel still isn't that big a cost.

BTW - there will most certainly be some excellent, super-economical single cylinder engines coming out of Italy. It's just they'll all be fitted to Scooters! ;)
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Spot on on running costs Miles, my Smart didn't get used a lot, mostly for a quick blat to Hartside and a brew there, it got taxed, insured, serviced each year and that was a huge bill compared to fuel. When i sold it I worked out that each brew had cost around £40, that made me realise tea is very expensive compared to fuel :D
 
Can I agree with both of you? People probably don't buy bikes with fuel consumption issues in mind - let's face it they're now all toys....Geoff's the exception that proves the rule!

However, not everyone is interested in a 200 bhp firebreather - I'm certainly not (much as I admire them), and I don't think I'm alone. A 60 to 80 bhp Ducati single would be a blast, and we're assuming from the straw poll at Francis's garage where the Supermono seemed to be the bike that most people named as they're favourite, that it's not just me that thinks that? If it'll do 100 mpg so much the better!

So if the original point that Miles was making is that Ducati are onto something with the Diavel in expanding their market, maybe they would also be onto something with a single? Would guys who buy a Panigale also consider a Super Sport Single (how does "500 Triple S" sound?). Or would it attract a different type of customer who maybe wouldn't normally consider a Duke, or any bike for that matter? I don't know if there is a Ducati ethos, but I know the company is often used on MBA courses as a case study as a globally successful and attractive brand, so they surely have something to build on, as demonstrated with the Diavel? Anyway, all I need now is that single...!
 
deputydawg said:
A 60 to 80 bhp Ducati single would be a blast, and we're assuming from the straw poll at Francis's garage where the Supermono seemed to be the bike that most people named as they're favourite, that it's not just me that thinks that? If it'll do 100 mpg so much the better!

So if the original point that Miles was making is that Ducati are onto something with the Diavel in expanding their market, maybe they would also be onto something with a single? Would guys who buy a Panigale also consider a Super Sport Single (how does "500 Triple S" sound?). Or would it attract a different type of customer who maybe wouldn't normally consider a Duke, or any bike for that matter? I don't know if there is a Ducati ethos, but I know the company is often used on MBA courses as a case study as a globally successful and attractive brand, so they surely have something to build on, as demonstrated with the Diavel? Anyway, all I need now is that single...!
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You've got to ask why people like the Supermono? Undoubtedly some people will like it because it's a single. But I reckon most people like it because it's extremely exotic, beautiful and rare (and therefore expensive). Just wondering what would building a single get you other than something that's fairly light? It would be pretty expensive to design a new engine for one bike, and I can't see how they could make that worthwhile and still sell the bike for a reasonable price.

The Monster 696 weighs in at 161kg and has 80hp. Whack on a fairing and some clip ons - voila, 2012 Supersport.
 
Good idea Miles. Ironic though - the monster came about by doing the reverse to the SS!

And I'm still holding out for a single :)
 
miloVanMultistrada said:
You've got to ask why people like the Supermono? Undoubtedly some people will like it because it's a single. But I reckon most people like it because it's extremely exotic, beautiful and rare (and therefore expensive). Just wondering what would building a single get you other than something that's fairly light? It would be pretty expensive to design a new engine for one bike, and I can't see how they could make that worthwhile and still sell the bike for a reasonable price.

The Monster 696 weighs in at 161kg and has 80hp. Whack on a fairing and some clip ons - voila, 2012 Supersport.
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Look at the Supermono against say the 916 and the styling is very similar.
What makes the Supermono is the fact it is a single, light etc.
If they made 5000 of them and it was worth £2000 now I would buy it before a 916.

Interesting discussion the other week where 4 of us were talking about the type of bike we fancied right now and we all said something like an RGV250 or a VFR400. Light , reasonable power but great fun at road legal speeds on the twisties.
The Sport Classic almost hit the mark but sadly IMO there were a couple of things that were not quite right.
The Monster is now almost 20 years old. How long can you keep bringing out "new" models?
Saw my first streetfighter at the weekend when I went to DG showroom. Not seen one on the road...ever.
Hypermotard drew in some sales initially but don't hear from anyone on here who has bought a new one for some time.
Multi is a great bike if you are 6' tall and you want 150hp and have £14k to spend.
No SS replacement (look how many people on here have bought or are looking at buying them at the moment) and no ST replacement.
These previous owners have nothing that tempts them so they sit with their old bike or drift away elsewhere.
As far as developing an engine they can do the same as the did with the Supermono.
Take a 1198 and take off one barrel and stick in a counter balance shaft.
I bet the development cost would be not much more than any other development of the existing L-twin.
 
miloVanMultistrada said:
But what attracts you to a single?

Plently of nice Japanese singles around, cheap too! ;)
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Agreed and I will probably buy one at this rate.

I just love the Honda GB500TT.

If that was in the showroom now new I would have it in a flash.
Sadly I don't need another old bike.
Piccie here:cool:
 
239desmo said:
Look at the Supermono against say the 916 and the styling is very similar.
What makes the Supermono is the fact it is a single, light etc.
If they made 5000 of them and it was worth £2000 now I would buy it before a 916.

Interesting discussion the other week where 4 of us were talking about the type of bike we fancied right now and we all said something like an RGV250 or a VFR400. Light , reasonable power but great fun at road legal speeds on the twisties.
The Sport Classic almost hit the mark but sadly IMO there were a couple of things that were not quite right.
The Monster is now almost 20 years old. How long can you keep bringing out "new" models?
Saw my first streetfighter at the weekend when I went to DG showroom. Not seen one on the road...ever.
Hypermotard drew in some sales initially but don't hear from anyone on here who has bought a new one for some time.
Multi is a great bike if you are 6' tall and you want 150hp and have £14k to spend.
No SS replacement (look how many people on here have bought or are looking at buying them at the moment) and no ST replacement.
These previous owners have nothing that tempts them so they sit with their old bike or drift away elsewhere.
As far as developing an engine they can do the same as the did with the Supermono.
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I dunno, I'm not convinced.

Comparing the 916 to the Supermono... if you took off the lights, mirrors, starter motor, most of the instruments, then fit a carbon fibre tank, subframe, airbox, rearsets and a magnesium triple clamp, case covers and wheels, you could probably shave a few pounds off a 916 and make it rather desirable into the bargain.

Unfortunately it would also end up being prohibitively expensive. ;) Anything built for the road is going to need to comply with EURO 3 (soon to 4) emissions and would so need to be sporting a catalytic converter.

But if you want something fun at road legal speeds, is the Supermono it? A tiny, totally focussed racer with a 140 mph top speed (and gearing to match). For that matter bikes like the RVG250 were fast - 130 mph fast. They weren't cheap either, not far from the price of a sports 600 of the same era when new. You also have to ask yourself where the 250/400cc market went in the UK? If there is demand for these bikes why did Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki, etc stop making and selling them? The answer... the young riders have gone. The 250cc class was popular because of cheaper insurance, in the days of insurance bands being based on cc and not power output, list price, etc.

If you want fun at road, legal speeds, you already mentioned the Ducati supplied solution. The Hypermotard 796. Just over £7K, relatively simple (aircooled engine, less gizmos). Ridiculously good fun on twisty roads - if I lived in the Alps I'd have one in the garage - not so good for speeds over 85mph, but then you don't want that, low seat height... :confused:

Take a 1198 and take off one barrel and stick in a counter balance shaft.
I bet the development cost would be not much more than any other development of the existing L-twin.
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What would the selling point be... Go much slower than the 1198, but for almost as much money?

Which brings me to my final point (yes I know, you're relieved :D) big numbers sell bikes. People will buy the Panigale because it has a few more HP than the BMW S1000RR. People bought the Hayabusa because it was the fastest road bike. It's always been like this for a certain segment of the bike buying population. All those magazine tests, comparing the stats, doing top speed runs, quarter miles, etc. What kind of group test would a sporty single cylinder Ducati be in? Would it be compared unfavourably to R6s and CBR600s because it cost as much but didn't manage to go through the speed trap as quickly?

Personally, I think people are looking at the old Ducati singles which were beautiful, but "of their time", and bringing them into the future out of context.

They were a step up from a motorized pushbike. Today you are proposing a step down from a superbike - I don't think that will really sell in the numbers you'd need.

As for the Monster being 20 years old, errr Porsche 911 anyone? There's a good 40 years left in the Monster yet! :p
 
239desmo said:
...No SS replacement (look how many people on here have bought or are looking at buying them at the moment) and no ST replacement.
These previous owners have nothing that tempts them so they sit with their old bike or drift away elsewhere...
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You've hit the nail on the head there Stewart.
 
Personally, I wish they'd bring back the sport classic. It was too good to die, and it wasn't even that old.

Black with a stripe, termis, tron-style rear light and tailtidy. Perfect.
 
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