Seven Ages of Rock - BBC1
- Thread starter Gizmo
- Start date
blu.beaver
New member
Wondering.....I think regretting is the word we're looking....
dancingdog
New member
everyone knows vinlyl is outdatad !!!!
Im away to buy one of these new fangled compact disc players
Im away to buy one of these new fangled compact disc players
Gizmo
Forum Geek
regret? yeah loads of that, but what i can't work out is why?
has anyone got the velvets collection ripped to mp3 please?, Hunky Dory and Roxy Music first album would be appreciated as well I'd forgotten why i still like Bowie but lost it with the Floyd, watching that brought it all back.
blu.beaver
New member
Ah YES.....
Seen them a number of times but one of the best was Close to the Edge at The Kelvin Hall....
I think I'll open a bottle of wine ....sneaky.... didn't sell all my albums may have to commandeer the number one child's turntable for a couple hours....
Seen them a number of times but one of the best was Close to the Edge at The Kelvin Hall....
I think I'll open a bottle of wine ....sneaky.... didn't sell all my albums may have to commandeer the number one child's turntable for a couple hours....
Gizmo
Forum Geek
ooh, i do like debating music
Yes? influential?
the 2 things don't really go together, a passing fashion whim which had little to no impact on later generations hence the "omission" from any rock history IMHO arty farty album covers don't make a rock band 
. the Velvets on the other hand influenced almost every garage rock band,they were the reason a lot of people picked up instruments as will be seen next week in the punk era ( me included). Roxy's ability to use sax, synth and guitar, add in the art school style and once again you've got the influence for what i'd expect is the latter part of next week or the beginning of the following one. There are far more major omissions than Yes - Led Zeppelin being one ( not that I'm a fan) but i guess they can't cover everything
Biscuit
andpotato
got a handful of VU mp3's (some are lou reed post VU), not really my bag tbh but occasionally get an airing along with Led Zep who, i believe one day, will be big about as 'classic' as my music collection gets is Marillion, who get a LOT of airing! i love Pink Floyd's RELICS and some of the newer stuff
about as 'classic' as my music collection gets is Marillion, who get a LOT of airing! i love Pink Floyd's RELICS and some of the newer stuff
DKM
Member
ooh, i do like debating music
Yes? influential?
There are far more major omissions than Yes - Led Zeppelin being one ( not that I'm a fan) but i guess they can't cover everything
That's the big problem for me - the Punk Era. Sure, prog rock had become too overblown and self - indulgent, but the cure (Punk) was far worse than the disease:
1 - I wanted (and still want) to go to gigs and be impressed, not to listen to some numpty who can't even play the guitar as well as I do (and I'm rubbish)!
2 - The worst thing about Punk by far has been its real legacy, which still persists today, namely that it was because of Punk (and probably Malcolm McLaren in particular) that the record company bosses realised once and for all that they could get away with absolutely anything. No more searching for talent, no more time spent nurturing talent when they found it, just stick any talentless idiot in front of a microphone and see if the kids fall for it. Nowadays they don't even pretend that their bands are not manufactured.
There was one good thing about Punk, there was an inevitable reaction against it after a couple of years and we got The Police.
239desmo
Is it nearly bedtime?
Music tastes and opinions are (in same way as cars and bike tastes) going to be largely influenced by your age. I never got the Punk thing at all. It seemed to be about flaunting the lack of any musical talent in many cases. For me bands that stood out and made a contribution were such as Small Faces, The Kinks, Cream (surely the first true Supergroup?), Led Zep, Fleetwood Mac (not the "Rumours" style line up!), Stones, Thin Lizzy and Black Lace. (Ok that was a joke!) I heard Noddy Holder being interviewed on Radio 2 about this and he mentioned Led Zep as an omission. You could throw in Sensational Alex Harvey Band and probably dozens more. Is the bottom line not musical ability and creativity?
Gizmo
Forum Geek
i see punk as being completely the opposite, it took control away from the major labels like EMI/RCA etc and allowed almost anyone to record and publish music, in its own way its almost as influential as what the internet had now done for music. OK, it means you have to sort through a lot more crap to get to the good bits but thats half the fun, i don't want to listen to the same stuff all the time. Labels like Stif, Rough Trade, Factory brought with them new record shops catering for people who wanted to find decent music and opened it up to more people.
The manufactured bands have always been there but i doubt whether many music fans ever really consider the mass market chart sound as being "real" music, the likes of Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd rarely had chart single success but did do well in the album charts. I don't think you can blame punk for the subsequent marketing boom for crap bands, that was inevitable as music companies looked at ways to return their investment in artists who wanted big tours studios and videos. If punk could have continued it might have stopped that
phew, this is a top way to pass a wet bank hol monday
239desmo
Is it nearly bedtime?
this is a top way to pass a wet bank hol monday
Can't tell what the weather is doing as I am blinded by the sunshine!
blu.beaver
New member
I agree with these the views/arguments, but during the time when prog bands were big and everything about them was big including ego's...a few memorable nights were had.. and sometimes wish you could still see the likes of ELP twice in the one day day for less than a fiver..I know ....Sad
You can't say some v clever and talented musicians who can still fill Gigs with 'Auld yin's like us' did not influence the music of the past couple of decades....
That's why we're watching these programmes....Yes, Genesis, Led Zep, Hawkwind to name a few have the subject of v good late night tv in recent months.... and not just the beeb..
You can't say some v clever and talented musicians who can still fill Gigs with 'Auld yin's like us' did not influence the music of the past couple of decades....
That's why we're watching these programmes....Yes, Genesis, Led Zep, Hawkwind to name a few have the subject of v good late night tv in recent months.... and not just the beeb..
DKM
Member
Depressing to see how old they all look now, I've been avoiding the mirrors in my house for the past couple of days!
Gizmo
Forum Geek
yup, followed by Berry Gordy with his Tamla label and Phil Spector, the slight difference between then and now is most of that lot had talent
yeah, but not being a fan of big gigs the punk thing took it back to smaller, more "real" venues and at cheaper prices. clever and talented, yes but so many of them just rehash the same style their fans want to hear, i can't think of anyone i've seen interviewed who would list yes or elp as a major influence on their musical direction, plenty list lou reed, john cale, eno, bowie. the great thing with music is we all like different things, it would be boring if we all liked the same stuff
But growing old means going deaf as well so its an excuse to TURN THE VOLUME UP
DKM
Member
I mentioned Elvis because I think his career was one long wasted opportunity. Huge talent, but every aspect of his professional (as well as personal) life controlled by others who were acting in their own interests. Result, 95% of his material was pap.
On the subject of Bowie, you should listen to the version of " Heroes" done by Iva Davies (ex Icehouse), which conveys the emotion of the song the way it should have been done. In comparison, Bowie basically just shouts his way through it.
On the subject of Bowie, you should listen to the version of " Heroes" done by Iva Davies (ex Icehouse), which conveys the emotion of the song the way it should have been done. In comparison, Bowie basically just shouts his way through it.
Gizmo
Forum Geek
But the 5% is what makes the difference, IMHO any artist trying to push boundaries runs a risk of turning out music some don't like, prolific song writers have more chance of getting it wrong purely through the number of songs. Whether its management/record company or even the artist themselves most have been manipulated and few retain real credibility but some create great tunes even in amongst all that and Elvis was one of those but maybe he could have done more without it, we'll never know sadly.
Bowie has turned out so much music covering vastly different genres and style, look at his mid 70's changes, from Ziggy/Aladin Sane/Diamond Dogs into the PinUps/David Live era, soul sound of Young Americans ( with Luther doing backing vocals) Station to Station the Berlin years of Low/Heroes years in the wilderness then the reinventioj with Lets Dance, an incredible variety of style which inevitably has been covered better but how many artists have the confidence to change so much ( are aren't bothered about keeping fans happy)? in some ways the opposite of the pop star he wanted to be in the Ziggy years, the lyrics maybe gave a clue all along.
MartinH
New member
Its funny the subject of the band Yes has come up, I was in my mates car the other day and he stuck and old cassette in of "going for the one" I ripped it out the dash and threw it out the window. Am not a fan at all of all the prog rock stuff but I have seen a number of the bands live. Used to have some mates who were into that kind of thing and I used to get dragged to various gigs and wonder what all the fuss was about. It seemed to be a load of miserable musicians doing 30 minute songs about wizards and dragons and other such nonsense. Some superb musicianship but what about the songs?
As a young lad Teenage kicks by the undertones said far more to me and was far more relevant to my life than a 30 minute guitar solo by Steve Howe or some 'song' about some dungeons and dragons scenario. I like a fairly wide range of different music but I cant get to grips with the whole thing about making a piece if music as a showpiece for the players talents with all the how many time changes / notes / scales can we fit in this song. To me seeing Johnny Thunders just play the one note just in the right place at the right time meant more than any jumble of notes played at an impossible tempo. Yes theres been a lot of crap since punk but look at some of the drivel that came before, to me as a kid it was all brotherhood of man singing save all your kisses then along came bands like the Sex Pistols etc and we had Johnny Rotten sneering and snarling and suddenly people like me wanted to buy a guitar and do the same. You didnt need to have guitar lessons or go to music school or read books about goblins to make music.
A lot of the Punk ethos continues with young lads locked away with their pcs and sequencers etc producing their own music whether it be out and out ravey type dance stuff or singlehandedly making a full album of their own stuff by themselves without the need for expensive studio time or an army of other musicians. I love it if on a night out we end up in a pub where theres a band consisting of young lads doing their own material. You can work out who they are influenced by pretty quickly by how they sound, however being an oldish bloke now I am usually a generation out in that a band I think sound like they are big Clash fans only started playing because of Green Day and likewise a band that sounded to me as if they were big fans of Tom Verlaine and Television were playing because of the band Razorlight. I think the Punk thing just seems to keep going and influencing another generation of musicians that maybe have never heard or know anything about the mid 70s first wave of Punk. Bands like Guns n Roses only started playing because of the Band Hanoi Rocks who themselves only started playing because of the likes of the New York Dolls, Mc5s etc.
Music eh, could talk bout it all day!
As a young lad Teenage kicks by the undertones said far more to me and was far more relevant to my life than a 30 minute guitar solo by Steve Howe or some 'song' about some dungeons and dragons scenario. I like a fairly wide range of different music but I cant get to grips with the whole thing about making a piece if music as a showpiece for the players talents with all the how many time changes / notes / scales can we fit in this song. To me seeing Johnny Thunders just play the one note just in the right place at the right time meant more than any jumble of notes played at an impossible tempo. Yes theres been a lot of crap since punk but look at some of the drivel that came before, to me as a kid it was all brotherhood of man singing save all your kisses then along came bands like the Sex Pistols etc and we had Johnny Rotten sneering and snarling and suddenly people like me wanted to buy a guitar and do the same. You didnt need to have guitar lessons or go to music school or read books about goblins to make music.
A lot of the Punk ethos continues with young lads locked away with their pcs and sequencers etc producing their own music whether it be out and out ravey type dance stuff or singlehandedly making a full album of their own stuff by themselves without the need for expensive studio time or an army of other musicians. I love it if on a night out we end up in a pub where theres a band consisting of young lads doing their own material. You can work out who they are influenced by pretty quickly by how they sound, however being an oldish bloke now I am usually a generation out in that a band I think sound like they are big Clash fans only started playing because of Green Day and likewise a band that sounded to me as if they were big fans of Tom Verlaine and Television were playing because of the band Razorlight. I think the Punk thing just seems to keep going and influencing another generation of musicians that maybe have never heard or know anything about the mid 70s first wave of Punk. Bands like Guns n Roses only started playing because of the Band Hanoi Rocks who themselves only started playing because of the likes of the New York Dolls, Mc5s etc.
Music eh, could talk bout it all day!
Gizmo
Forum Geek
PMSL
did you watch it then? i stuck it on sky box and can do a dvd if you missed it, the Velvets bit is worth a look/listen as is the Barrett stuff, it looked like some real rare footage of Syd.
DKM
Member
Actually I agree with that, can't be bothered with the more "orchestral" stuff. One of my favourite tracks at the moment is their last American (minor) hit single, The Calling, released in 1994 - almost yesterday by our standards! Much more accessible musically.
OK, that's enough Yes from me.
Which of today's bands/artists do you think will still be going strong in 20 years' time? If anybody says Robbie Williams I'll shoot myself. Better still, I'll shoot him.
MartinH
New member
Thats a tough un!
Out of the chart stuff I reckon very few will last more than a few years especially the 'bands'. I think the musicians / songwriters that will still be about are the ones that are in the position where they can pretty much call the shots and produce whatever they want. People like Prince, Beck, Paul Weller, Ryan (not Bryan!) Adams, Neil Young I can imagine going on and on producing music and still selling albums until they kick the bucket.
20 years? Picture the Rolling Stones 2027 tour
Spud Raver
New member
Ive recorded this programme and haven't seen it yet......
and after reading this thread, I dont think Im gonna bother!
and after reading this thread, I dont think Im gonna bother!
centurysup
Active member
Yes must be becoming trendy - "Owner of a Lonely Heart" was played before the Groove Armada gig I attended recently at Barrowlands.
Gizmo
Forum Geek
a quick revival of this thread, did anyone see the NYC programmes on BBC 4 last night? An amazing history of NYC rock with Velvets, New York Dolls, Television, Talking Heads and Patti Smith ( who's scheduled to play at WDW) linked into the start of disco and beginnings of rap with Nile, Grandmaster Flash and more. If that wasn't enough it was followed by a selection of live performances from Whistle Test and Jools Holland, 2 from John Cale inc Venus in Furs, 2 from Lou, Sonic Youth Patti Smith doing Because the Night with just an acoustic guitar, chuffin brilliant 2 hours TV, i've got a bit of it recorded Martin, will get a DVD burnt for you.