W
Wassy
Just visiting
Item number 250304971650
Go on, you know you want to buy it !
Go on, you know you want to buy it !
rockjock620
New member
Number 8 is/was available from that place that was selling the Supermono mentioned not long back on here.
239desmo
Is it nearly bedtime?
Cheffins selling one in the auction.
http://www.cheffins.co.uk/lot/-228600-vintage-0
There have been quite a few recently surfacing for sale. Interesting how expected prices vary dramatically depending on who is selling.
Think the one in Cheffins may have been in a couple of the classic mags for a while and not sold.
http://www.cheffins.co.uk/lot/-228600-vintage-0
There have been quite a few recently surfacing for sale. Interesting how expected prices vary dramatically depending on who is selling.
Think the one in Cheffins may have been in a couple of the classic mags for a while and not sold.
rockjock620
New member
found it - this is the other one - http://www.madeinitalymotorcycles.com/stock_list.htm
it's about ten bikes down, yellow.
it's about ten bikes down, yellow.
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ProjectImola004
Just visiting
The one Chieftans are selling is a nice one.
Don't touch the Nr 1 machine though. It was the original prototype, it was well built engine wise, but the frame doesn't have a single bit of undercoat, it's just painted black, if you get to see it in the flesh, it's pretty rough actually. The bike was a 'mock-up' hack to show what could be done using all original donor bike parts.
I'm not slating the bike, having ridden it for a fair few miles, I feel it is still good, I just feel that if any of you are gonna show serious interest, you need to know the history of the thing.
ps. Need anymore info on this one let me know
Don't touch the Nr 1 machine though. It was the original prototype, it was well built engine wise, but the frame doesn't have a single bit of undercoat, it's just painted black, if you get to see it in the flesh, it's pretty rough actually. The bike was a 'mock-up' hack to show what could be done using all original donor bike parts.
I'm not slating the bike, having ridden it for a fair few miles, I feel it is still good, I just feel that if any of you are gonna show serious interest, you need to know the history of the thing.
ps. Need anymore info on this one let me know
Dukess1999
Active member
Why does he call it a Paul Smart Replica? The 'all Ducatis have an oil leak' is bit of a load of guff as well. Does look good though (almost as good as yours Ed!).
239desmo
Is it nearly bedtime?
He probably doesn't know who Paul Smart is either!
I thought it was old British bikes that had oil leaks!:lol2:
Steve748
New member
I think the blurb on the bike is slightly dodgy. At one point he says he is reluctantly selling the bike, ten he is selling it on behalf of a friend.
I saw that and sent him the following question
Hi, you say you are reluctantly selling this and lower down the listing you are selling it on behalf of a 'friend' so which is it? also what is a deadbeat bidder?
Steve
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ProjectImola004
Just visiting
...all that glitters isn't gold remember. I've already described this bike further up this thread. I've also just read the description on the ebay site, it's quite inaccurate actually. I also agree, why would he say that he's selling 'my beloved....' then state that its on behalf of a friend. (unless he's used Ben Davies's description.)
I met the owner of this bike when the boys sold it on, I can't honestly say though that Ben was that person, can't remember!
I personally feel that he won't sell this for anything like what he might want for it - with that description; clearly aimed at a specialist market, he isn't going to impress Ducati 'specialists' with almost fobbing off potential buyers with 'oil leaks standard on Ducs'. - Clearly not a salesman!!!
These are very specialist motorbikes, for a very specialist market. They costed alot of money (depending on your spec) and were placed in the marketplace at a time when for the same money, you could buy a brand new Ducati, complete with all the dealer service that goes with that. These have no warranty whatsoever. I could have bought a nice SP model of a Ducati with the money I spent on mine!!!!
As I said, this was the bike in all the PR bumph about ProjectImola. It was a design feasability study and subsequent kits were better produced etc. Make of that what you will.
I met the owner of this bike when the boys sold it on, I can't honestly say though that Ben was that person, can't remember!
I personally feel that he won't sell this for anything like what he might want for it - with that description; clearly aimed at a specialist market, he isn't going to impress Ducati 'specialists' with almost fobbing off potential buyers with 'oil leaks standard on Ducs'. - Clearly not a salesman!!!
These are very specialist motorbikes, for a very specialist market. They costed alot of money (depending on your spec) and were placed in the marketplace at a time when for the same money, you could buy a brand new Ducati, complete with all the dealer service that goes with that. These have no warranty whatsoever. I could have bought a nice SP model of a Ducati with the money I spent on mine!!!!
As I said, this was the bike in all the PR bumph about ProjectImola. It was a design feasability study and subsequent kits were better produced etc. Make of that what you will.
Steve748
New member
I received the following reply from 'Dave'
the description was wrote by my friend who owns the bike, i am only listing it as his computer isnt working properly, a deadbeat bidder is someone who doesnt pay
Thanks Dave
He still could have listed it on his friends Ebay account even though his computer is a bit wonky:dunno:
the description was wrote by my friend who owns the bike, i am only listing it as his computer isnt working properly, a deadbeat bidder is someone who doesnt pay
Thanks Dave
He still could have listed it on his friends Ebay account even though his computer is a bit wonky:dunno:
meccanomark
New member
I received the following reply from 'Dave'
the description was wrote by my friend who owns the bike, i am only listing it as his computer isnt working properly, a deadbeat bidder is someone who doesnt pay
Thanks Dave
He still could have listed it on his friends Ebay account even though his computer is a bit wonky:dunno:
...I did suspect that this was the case.
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ProjectImola004
Just visiting
...sorry guys, it was me who posted this the other day while logged on as Mark.
got an aquaintant going to buy the Cheffins one tomorrow.
Buying another one! You must like 'em 
I've seen the Baines blurb, and, as I've got a beltie SS, always wondered whether the "goes and handles better than the original.." refers to better than the 70's bevel or the 90's SS ?
I'm senile enough to think the old stuff looks better, but still got enough of my reflex's left to appreciate that the later bikes go and handle way better than the bevels ever will ......
As you own/ride/track your's, is the Proj Imola's lighter weight noticable compared to an SS, and is this weight reduction the reason for the improvements in handling etc.....?
My SS's slowly shedding weight as it gains BHP but the thing that stops any further changes is the frame .... is the Baines one a worthwhile change in itself? It doesn't appear to be structurally any different, so should be just as heavy!
I've seen the Baines blurb, and, as I've got a beltie SS, always wondered whether the "goes and handles better than the original.." refers to better than the 70's bevel or the 90's SS ?
I'm senile enough to think the old stuff looks better, but still got enough of my reflex's left to appreciate that the later bikes go and handle way better than the bevels ever will ......
As you own/ride/track your's, is the Proj Imola's lighter weight noticable compared to an SS, and is this weight reduction the reason for the improvements in handling etc.....?
My SS's slowly shedding weight as it gains BHP but the thing that stops any further changes is the frame .... is the Baines one a worthwhile change in itself? It doesn't appear to be structurally any different, so should be just as heavy!
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ProjectImola004
Just visiting
Buying another one! You must like 'em
I've seen the Baines blurb, and, as I've got a beltie SS, always wondered whether the "goes and handles better than the original.." refers to better than the 70's bevel or the 90's SS ?
I'm senile enough to think the old stuff looks better, but still got enough of my reflex's left to appreciate that the later bikes go and handle way better than the bevels ever will ......
As you own/ride/track your's, is the Proj Imola's lighter weight noticable compared to an SS, and is this weight reduction the reason for the improvements in handling etc.....?
My SS's slowly shedding weight as it gains BHP but the thing that stops any further changes is the frame .... is the Baines one a worthwhile change in itself? It doesn't appear to be structurally any different, so should be just as heavy!
its not me buying another one, I'm just Mr Info when it comes to them and the guy who bought it wanted to know everything about these rare bikes. He has since texted me and it is now sat in his conservatory. Good for him.
Interesting questions though.
The frame on the Imola is made from T45 which is lighter and stronger than the original (gas pipe) chassis!
It also has 1 degree steeper head angle at the front. The basic design of the frame is otherwise very simular to its donor cousin, it is so designed such that all the original ancillaries that are associated with making the thing work just bolt straight on. Its the back end that goes completely way from the original. It has more in common with the bevels than the '90s SS. the "goes and handles better than the original.." refers to both '90s and '70s bikes. This is however dependent on whos driving the thing!!
Its the ProjectImola change worthwhile making? that is something I can't answer without being very biased having ridden both and knowing what I know about both IMO very much so!!!!
Cheers for the info - much appreciated....
I know from the ARC site in the states and Kaemna in Euroland that they both shed a good old bucket of weight from SS's (around 10kgs) by building race frames with similar geometry shifts (shorter headstock angle) but made from Titanium. Their 'stock' bikes using donor SS engines come in under 160kg wet -
Unfortunately they also charge over £3k for each frame, and the frames are unsuitable (not 'type approved') for road use .....
I'm not sure even an anorexic SS can be got down to those weights if the stock frame is retained ..... any idea what the Baines frame weighs? Is T45 that much lighter than the stock steel Duc uses? Thinking about it (and this is in the distant reaches of my badly catalogued mind), isn't that what the Triumph/Norton bods used to get lumps of weight out of their 'racing' bikes?
I know from the ARC site in the states and Kaemna in Euroland that they both shed a good old bucket of weight from SS's (around 10kgs) by building race frames with similar geometry shifts (shorter headstock angle) but made from Titanium. Their 'stock' bikes using donor SS engines come in under 160kg wet -
Unfortunately they also charge over £3k for each frame, and the frames are unsuitable (not 'type approved') for road use .....
I'm not sure even an anorexic SS can be got down to those weights if the stock frame is retained ..... any idea what the Baines frame weighs? Is T45 that much lighter than the stock steel Duc uses? Thinking about it (and this is in the distant reaches of my badly catalogued mind), isn't that what the Triumph/Norton bods used to get lumps of weight out of their 'racing' bikes?
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ProjectImola004
Just visiting
Cheers for the info - much appreciated....
I know from the ARC site in the states and Kaemna in Euroland that they both shed a good old bucket of weight from SS's (around 10kgs) by building race frames with similar geometry shifts (shorter headstock angle) but made from Titanium. Their 'stock' bikes using donor SS engines come in under 160kg wet -
Unfortunately they also charge over £3k for each frame, and the frames are unsuitable (not 'type approved') for road use .
Thats quite a bit cheaper than the Imola kit!!!
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ProjectImola004
Just visiting
When I was at Baines, Roland, one of the technicans there managed to shed a load of weight from his SL. It was also featured in Performance bikes way back when. It had half a ton shaved off it's blue-printed motor; crank, ti rods, beautiful Poggipolini ti bolts throughout, super-lightweight engine internals - ££££££, mag wheels and carbon everything from tank to exhaust hangers. It was very light indeed but I can't remember how much, oh and yes it's frame was stock.
T45 is lighter but don't ask me how much - don't care really, it's a better quality material that's all I know!
Spent the last hour meandering through some other Duc sites to see what experiences have been around the world of Ti frames - and it seems our friends at ARC haven't made anything for some time (over a year), but unfortunately this hasn't stopped them taking orders, and more importantly, peoples money!!!
Does look to be a shame as those who have received the frames/exhausts etc they paid for were high in praise for the quality of the stuff ...
I've seen the results of engine weight reduction on an aircooled lump and yep, impressive, but mine will be used in a 'daily commuter' roadbike, so doesn't really justify the expense of trick internals, or a rebuild (yet!) ..... the petrol tank is something that may well get replaced with something lighter .... interesting that the Imola looks like it's got a slab-sided Ali tank (easier to construct) hidden inside a shaped glass cover .... got a few benefits I can think of there, but with a reduced capacity!..... beer and thinking cap time :idea:
Does look to be a shame as those who have received the frames/exhausts etc they paid for were high in praise for the quality of the stuff ...
I've seen the results of engine weight reduction on an aircooled lump and yep, impressive, but mine will be used in a 'daily commuter' roadbike, so doesn't really justify the expense of trick internals, or a rebuild (yet!) ..... the petrol tank is something that may well get replaced with something lighter .... interesting that the Imola looks like it's got a slab-sided Ali tank (easier to construct) hidden inside a shaped glass cover .... got a few benefits I can think of there, but with a reduced capacity!..... beer and thinking cap time :idea:
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ProjectImola004
Just visiting
...a pathetically small tank actually! Spoken to 'Taff' of the tank shop and for a few hundred quid he'll build a gorgeous alloy version. I built this bike when I lived where there was a tanker every few miles, where I now stay, I have to seriously think about the 80-90 mile range and plan my journey very carefully!
...small drawbacks to what an amazing experience ProjectImola actually is!
All the numbers (weight/sharpersteering angle/stronger frame) are secondary really against the great looks of the thing ..... Just got to persuade the stock market to go back up so my investments are worth enough to buy a pair of tyres, let alone the whole bike 
On the subject of tank range (12 litres - ) .... I assume the fuel is still pumped as per SS's? So, why can't the pump be located in a separate tank located in the space under the seat behind the vertical cylinder... where the SS has it's shock (and older bikes had their oil tanks)? This could be hidden by retro side panels as found on 70's 900's and would have the added benefit of putting the first 5 litres or so of fuel (5kg weight!) lower in the frame - which is always a good thing .....
edit : nearer you than me, but prices aren't that bad for custom stuff ... might need the sunglasses though if you don't paint them
http://www.thetankshop.com/others.html
On the subject of tank range (12 litres -
) .... I assume the fuel is still pumped as per SS's? So, why can't the pump be located in a separate tank located in the space under the seat behind the vertical cylinder... where the SS has it's shock (and older bikes had their oil tanks)? This could be hidden by retro side panels as found on 70's 900's and would have the added benefit of putting the first 5 litres or so of fuel (5kg weight!) lower in the frame - which is always a good thing .....edit : nearer you than me, but prices aren't that bad for custom stuff ... might need the sunglasses though if you don't paint them
http://www.thetankshop.com/others.html
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ProjectImola004
Just visiting
On the subject of tank range (12 litres -
edit : nearer you than me, but prices aren't that bad for custom stuff ... might need the sunglasses though if you don't paint them
http://www.thetankshop.com/others.html
This is the beauty of ProjectImola, you can do all this sort of stuff yourself. The tank range is more akin to a Hyper - 8.5L is more realistic. The NCR replica had a wonderful 16L alloy tank.
How did you get on with insuring the bike?
It's bad enough with changed wheels or bodywork, but any changes to frames are a complete 'No No' for road use, no matter how well made they are, and I end up with a quote akin to what a turbo'd R1 would cost to insure ......
One for the legal gang: Can a frame be fabricated as a copy of the original and the original VIN number stamped on it if the original is scrapped? I know that classic car restorers starting with a basket case simply replace every part of an old car, including in many cases the chassis, and re-use the old VIN plates, as if it is the same car as the donor! Technically, as the owner is not seeking to defraud anyone, is it illegal to do the same with a bike frame - ie remake it in a better (stronger/lighter) material?
It's bad enough with changed wheels or bodywork, but any changes to frames are a complete 'No No' for road use, no matter how well made they are, and I end up with a quote akin to what a turbo'd R1 would cost to insure ......
One for the legal gang: Can a frame be fabricated as a copy of the original and the original VIN number stamped on it if the original is scrapped? I know that classic car restorers starting with a basket case simply replace every part of an old car, including in many cases the chassis, and re-use the old VIN plates, as if it is the same car as the donor! Technically, as the owner is not seeking to defraud anyone, is it illegal to do the same with a bike frame - ie remake it in a better (stronger/lighter) material?
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ProjectImola004
Just visiting
No, this is exactly what is done with ProjectImola. As far as DVLA are concerned it is a modifed 900ss. It is all above board and legal. Carol Nash are the only insurers however who will touch it. I had to produce receipts, specs and photos etc. in order to get and agreed value on it.
Once the ground work is done - which Baines did with Carol Nash back in '05 it is really quite simple really. it is on their system as a Baines ProjectImola.
It costs me just over £500 pa to insure, with an agreed value of £10.5k.
Dave G
New member
It costs me just over £500 pa to insure, with an agreed value of £10.5k.
Whats it made of ?, gold?
Considering where you live ,I think thats a lot,both my Ducatis are insured for a lot less than that and their total insurance value exceeds £10,000.
Perhaps time to look at another insurer.
Whats it made of ?, gold?
Considering where you live ,I think thats a lot,both my Ducatis are insured for a lot less than that and their total insurance value exceeds £10,000.
Perhaps time to look at another insurer.
I think that's one of the problems with 'specials' . As has been said, only Carol Nash would insure it ...... as for both your bikes being > £10k, they will have calculated for the more valuable one, then only added about 20% to cover the other on the basis you can only crash one at a time
..... the Proj Imola will not depreciate much from the £10k over the years so insurance will be on a par with a new model in terms of replacement value (SC1000/GT1000 etc) .....ps - my 900SS is only £106 fully comp, business use, pillion, etc.... even a 999S would be < £280 for an old bu99er like me ... but thats a whole different (oft repeated) thread ....
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ProjectImola004
Just visiting
That's right Bert. Remember Dave, mine's an agreed value, not a depreciating one.