Knockhill??

Hmmm so we want to do a DG track night at Knockhill but I don't have a road going Ducati? My R hasn't moved since Jerez Nov 2006 so I'd be bringing my current DD race bike in a van to and from the circuit probably a 500-600 mile round trip.

And for one I'll be trying to 1. Learn the track 2. Go as quickly as I can while I am there.

So does that mean I'm not welcome? Would that also mean Martin can't ride on his own track nights on his R being a track bike???? :rolleyes:
 
I guess in an ideal world the DG nights would be Ducati only.
I would also guess that as they are not it is because insufficient Ducati owners will commit to attending and Martin has to cover his costs.
Not sure I agree that a track bike owner is going to ride faster than a road bike owner, that will come down to the individual. There have been "offs" reported here from previous nights which were road bikes.
If I was wobbling round the track and I was passed by a bike going 30mph faster frankly I wouldn't care what make or state of trim it was!
Noticed the comments on the Porsche only nights.
Well when I attended them a few years ago ( it may have changed now) the PCGB could not raise enough members to fill the spaces so a deal was done with the Lotus owners where each club would offer any free spaces to the other. On most nights there were an array of Porsches and also Elise, Lotus 7 and various kit car derivatives. An odd classic racing/rally car would attend as well.
I could see the point in complaining about types of bike taking part if they were stopping road going Ducatis from taking part but to date I have not seen anyone on here complaining they could not get onto the track night because it was fully booked with track/Japanese bikes.
 
Freak said:
Hmmm so we want to do a DG track night at Knockhill but I don't have a road going Ducati? My R hasn't moved since Jerez Nov 2006 so I'd be bringing my current DD race bike in a van to and from the circuit probably a 500-600 mile round trip.

And for one I'll be trying to 1. Learn the track 2. Go as quickly as I can while I am there.

So does that mean I'm not welcome? Would that also mean Martin can't ride on his own track nights on his R being a track bike???? :rolleyes:
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:rolleyes:
Not what I am saying at all and silly to suggst Martin would not qualify.

Its just my personal opinion.

The brand could support exclusivity.

I would quite like to see your DD bike in action though. :)
 
...well, the first DG trackevening is tonight, and I am not going!!! :( :(

I did my sums and based on the current price of fuel (if I can get it), the cost per mile (which is 24p - @ 25mpg) to run my truck and the 365 mile round trip, this works out at give or take £147! Plus the £60 for the trackeve, I just can't afford to do this one! I'm gutted having spent most of Friday night rebuilding the Imola for the Black Isle weekender and the DG tracknight.
On top of having guests not turning up (who were gonna be paying for my endulgence on Knickhell!!!)

£147 for a two hour track night is just out of my price range at the moment. I hope things are looking better next month!!!! :banghead: :furious: :furious: :hissy: :hissy:

...Jon, you and Claire are welcome to come with whatever bikes you choose!!!! :)
 
So sorry you're not going to make it.:( I was really looking forward to seeing the Imola in the flesh, and to meeting yourself of course.:D

It seems we are doomed not to get out on runs or go to events due to poor weather and fuel shortages.:(

Hope to meet you in the near future.:)
 
mbg said:
So sorry you're not going to make it.:( I was really looking forward to seeing the Imola in the flesh, and to meeting yourself of course.:D

It seems we are doomed not to get out on runs or go to events due to poor weather and fuel shortages.:(

Hope to meet you in the near future.:)
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...oh I WILL be going to the next one believe me!!! I will need to get my fix of this.....
vbpgimage.jpg

and this...
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ProjectImola004 said:
...the cost per mile (which is 24p - @ 25mpg) to run my truck and the 365 mile round trip, this works out at give or take £147! Plus the £60 for the trackeve, I just can't afford to do this one! ..


£147 for a two hour track night is just out of my price range at the moment.
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Read this and wondered if your arithmetic was as good as your navigation skills aroung Nairn!;) :)

The £147 includes the track night charge. The way I read it the total cost was over £200.

Still not a cheap night out I guess. You forgot to add fuel for the night and a new pair of tyres!:rolleyes:
 
239desmo said:
Read this and wondered if your arithmetic was as good as your navigation skills aroung Nairn!;) :)

The £147 includes the track night charge. The way I read it the total cost was over £200.

Still not a cheap night out I guess. You forgot to add fuel for the night and a new pair of tyres!:rolleyes:
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...you're right, it doesn't read that well.
I don't tend to trash a pair of tyres though, I take two sets of wheels and normally change to the track wheels halfway through the session. (along with eating a peanutbutter sandwich!!). My wire wheels have track tyres on them also, although fitted with a 180 section rear which makes the Imola a bit ponderous tipping into the corners. Hence the change half way through, the 160 section on the track wheels quickens it's steering up unbeliveably - bit like taking two bikes really!! :)
 
mbg said:
Thanks for the pics. Cheered up a very drab day.:D
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...you're welcome, didn't cheer mine up, just p1ssed mine off even more knowing I'm not going!!!!
still the weather up here is gorgeous, might don the leathers and blow away the cobwebs (on me not the bike!!!) :p
 
I had a wee look on my cameras and the weather in the direction of the Hill Of Doom looks fabulous.

Have a great night folks and stay rubber side down!
 
Looks like a sore one (bike damage) at the hairpin tonight. That what puts me off...getting taken out on a bend by someone else!
 
colzo said:
Looks like a sore one (bike damage) at the hairpin tonight. That what puts me off...getting taken out on a bend by someone else!
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Oh thats never a problem. There is no overtaking at corners. Ever!:rolleyes:

But I agree. The pictures look a wee touch sore. Hope all the riders are ok. I struggled to see what bikes they were though? Mostly non- Ducati?:confused:
 
thankfully the riders were all ok last night as far as I am aware- albeit they will be bruised and sore this morning no doubt:(
 
and of course no one ever gets taken out on the road

:) I know your totally right, seems nuts, never been to a track day.. would love to though but we'll see. If someone is brave enough to take a desmo round Knockhill then I have no excuses on a 749!
 
Hi,
I was at the tracknight last night and I stopped afterwards too help the guy on the Multistrada who got wiped out at the hairpin on what turned out too be the last lap of the night.

He was wiped out by the guy on the Honda diving underneath him on the hairpin and then running wide. The multistrada got trashed on one side from the track and trashed on the other side from the honda hitting it. Another bike following closely hit both the fallen bikes.

Poor guy had too ride the crashed bike back too Aberdeen :confused: so I helped him tape up every panel on his bike (yes every panel had damage), tape the broken indicators to the bent handlebars, wrench the bent gear-pedal so he could select a gear and generally dust him down and give him some sympathy. I checked he got running ok and I hope he made it.

Man his bike was trashed and he was angry. As he correctly said at the pre-event briefing we were all told no overtaking under brakes so how did this happen? He said the honda went inside him under braking into the hairpin .... something he should NOT have done if the rules were being followed. IMHO Honda guy should not have made the move he did as he obviously did not have the ability too cope.

This was not an isolated incident (I think a total of 7 bikes were crashed last night) and I personally saw several overtaking moves in corners out on track last night under brakes.

Honda guy did come over and say sorry. He said he thought the multistrada would accelerate at the same rate as he could coming off the bend. mmmmmmm.

This is the kind of stupidity that ruins tracknights and although I did overtake a couple of times at the hairpin last night I do think it might be better for all if the rules were changed too only allow overtaking on the two straights.

I've done a few trackdays now and I know we all wanna go fast but I for one do not want too go too fast and trash my bike and I would be mortified if I crashed and took out another bike.

I would like too see a clearer, more defined statement made at the pre-event briefing about overtaking in corners and I would like too see Marshalls black flagging culprits.

Cheers
Steve
 
stevewrightscotland said:
Hi,
I was at the tracknight last night and I stopped afterwards too help the guy on the Multistrada who got wiped out at the hairpin on what turned out too be the last lap of the night.

He was wiped out by the guy on the Honda diving underneath him on the hairpin and then running wide. The multistrada got trashed on one side from the track and trashed on the other side from the honda hitting it. Another bike following closely hit both the fallen bikes.

Poor guy had too ride the crashed bike back too Aberdeen :confused: so I helped him tape up every panel on his bike (yes every panel had damage), tape the broken indicators to the bent handlebars, wrench the bent gear-pedal so he could select a gear and generally dust him down and give him some sympathy. I checked he got running ok and I hope he made it.

Man his bike was trashed and he was angry. As he correctly said at the pre-event briefing we were all told no overtaking under brakes so how did this happen? He said the honda went inside him under braking into the hairpin .... something he should NOT have done if the rules were being followed. IMHO Honda guy should not have made the move he did as he obviously did not have the ability too cope.

This was not an isolated incident (I think a total of 7 bikes were crashed last night) and I personally saw several overtaking moves in corners out on track last night under brakes.

Honda guy did come over and say sorry. He said he thought the multistrada would accelerate at the same rate as he could coming off the bend. mmmmmmm.

This is the kind of stupidity that ruins tracknights and although I did overtake a couple of times at the hairpin last night I do think it might be better for all if the rules were changed too only allow overtaking on the two straights.

I've done a few trackdays now and I know we all wanna go fast but I for one do not want too go too fast and trash my bike and I would be mortified if I crashed and took out another bike.

I would like too see a clearer, more defined statement made at the pre-event briefing about overtaking in corners and I would like too see Marshalls black flagging culprits.

Cheers
Steve
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Good points, while we all sympathize with everyone involved (nobody went out with any bad intention Im sure) , but if Im going to do a trackday now, then its going to be with something I can afford to scatter.......not my pride and joy (even after its had its bi annual wash) ;)
 
Was WeeIan there?

I'm just thinking he may have some "on head camera" footage??:confused:

It would be of great help as it would be from the rear!:D Perhaps a wee bit too far behind for any meaningful analysis, but we could try and get it enlarged:lol2:

The footage that is. Not WeeIan of course. That would be silly.:D

Ian (the bigger one)
 
ok.. my view.. as someone that does a lot of trackdays.. I am not defending anyone, just putting another view across

There are always two side to a story.

Whenever there is an incident it is always easy to blame the other person and suggest it was deliberate or through stupidity.. but it's not always the case.

Clearly the gent on the Multi thought the Honda had 'dived' up the inside. This may well have been the case, but it could also have been that he was following the multi and the multi just braked a lot more than expected, ran in deep and was slow on the exit. In this situation the Honda rider would have been in a difficult situation. Yes he should be able to read the rider in front, but if both are inexperienced then this is not always the case. In this situation he probably just took the tighter line and was then caught unaware when the multi was slow exiting meaning the arrived at the same spot together.

Without evidence and a black box of both the riders thoughts we just don't know, so lets not hang anyone and start blaming the organisation.

I am a fairly experienced track rider but had an unpleasant close call at Oulton a few months back as the rider I was following decided to do a lifesaver and then swerved to one side to wave me past (I kid you not!) I was perfectly safe, following his lines and waiting for a decent spot to overtake, but his sudden random move left me with little room for movement. Luckily we were not going fast and I was able to make adjustments quickly, but someone on a faster bike would probably have just hit him.

If you go for a new rule of overtake on straight only there is no point in me or half the riders coming. I have 62 bhp and no chance of overtaking any of you on a straight. however i can quite safely pass wide into, during or out of a corner.

Track riding is safe.. if you ride sensibly, but there is always the chance that something will happen, no matter what rules you put in place. It is safer than the road on every possible level and it can help you develop your ability on a bike without the other distractions.

Maybe a better option would be to split the groups so the novices are not with the quicker folks??
 
Lily said:
ok.. my view.. as someone that does a lot of trackdays.. I am not defending anyone, just putting another view across

There are always two side to a story.

Whenever there is an incident it is always easy to blame the other person and suggest it was deliberate or through stupidity.. but it's not always the case.

Clearly the gent on the Multi thought the Honda had 'dived' up the inside. This may well have been the case, but it could also have been that he was following the multi and the multi just braked a lot more than expected, ran in deep and was slow on the exit. In this situation the Honda rider would have been in a difficult situation. Yes he should be able to read the rider in front, but if both are inexperienced then this is not always the case. In this situation he probably just took the tighter line and was then caught unaware when the multi was slow exiting meaning the arrived at the same spot together.

Without evidence and a black box of both the riders thoughts we just don't know, so lets not hang anyone and start blaming the organisation.

I am a fairly experienced track rider but had an unpleasant close call at Oulton a few months back as the rider I was following decided to do a lifesaver and then swerved to one side to wave me past (I kid you not!) I was perfectly safe, following his lines and waiting for a decent spot to overtake, but his sudden random move left me with little room for movement. Luckily we were not going fast and I was able to make adjustments quickly, but someone on a faster bike would probably have just hit him.

If you go for a new rule of overtake on straight only there is no point in me or half the riders coming. I have 62 bhp and no chance of overtaking any of you on a straight. however i can quite safely pass wide into, during or out of a corner.

Track riding is safe.. if you ride sensibly, but there is always the chance that something will happen, no matter what rules you put in place. It is safer than the road on every possible level and it can help you develop your ability on a bike without the other distractions.

Maybe a better option would be to split the groups so the novices are not with the quicker folks??
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As a very experienced track dayer (around 14) years I have to say Lilly has got it spot on.

No one goes out to crash their own bike or cause anyone to do so. The nature of track days is inherently risky and as such anyone taking part should be under no illusions that it will not happen to them.

I have been the cause of an incident and I have also been the victim on numerous ocations, I still take part and still enjoy them.
As the saying goes "you pay's your money and you takes ya chance."

I am not defending either party although the Honda rider was along with me and yes it was his first trackday. He is as pi##sed as is the other guy, his bike is also a mess along with his teeth,shoulder & neck.

These things happen and will continue to happen as long as people take part.

The most important point in this case is that no one was badly injured and will all live to ride another day.

Peter.
 
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Must say Lily, that was "Devils Advocate " played out at a very high level!

And coming from you it might prevent the unfortunate lynching of a very sore Honda rider;)

All we can do is hope for the best when it comes to fixing of machines and healing of bruises.....
 
Look. I feel for them all , especially the Honda guy if he is hurt. I wish him all the best and hope the injuries are not too bad. But any injury is a bad thing. Any crash is also.

If have said it all before and this thread has been done to death. Every post track night the same stuff comes up.

It is a risky thing to do and there is always a possibility that your talent will run out and the unthinkable happens. But the risks can be limited.

For instance the blurb on DG website could be less "fluffy bunnies, blue sky and sunshine up yer arse" and more to the point. "If you come there is gonna be some seriously quick guys, on track prepared bikes and see those gravel traps.......at most turns.......they bloody hurt if you crash."

Knockhill have a responsibility too. Not that I wish to point anyone in the direction of Injurylawyers4U, but they are I think, if my knowledge is right, and it may be wrong, liable. IF they have not followed procedure.

eg. were there bikes on track on slicks, with no side stands and minus brake lights? If so then you may have a right to pursue them.

These nights are generally not, in MY opinion, what they say they will be. You should be able to tootle around at whatever pace without the added risk of hitting another rider. If the rules say no overtakes in corners then there should not be any. The rules state you should have a rear brake light.

Why should we just accept there has been a pretty serious crash? Its totally avoidable. One day, and I pray its no one I, or any of you lot know, someone will be seriously hurt or killed.

And before any of you jump down my throat and you no doubt will do anyway, the rules are the rules. As you keep reminding me!

Bottom line is, regardless how slow or useless any of them were. No matter what the manouvere. No matter what bikes they were on.

IF THEY DID NOT OVERTAKE INTO THE CORNERS THEN IT WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED!
 
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