Is it the end of Ducati?

Fergie

New member
Ok.
So over the years I have bought many bikes, most of them Ducati and they have been a great source of pleasure. I even ordered a Desmosedici.

The thing is that I have been watching the 1098 from afar, listened to those who slated the looks, defended the brand when needed and generally speaking flew the flag for all things Bolognese. And decided that I fancied a Tricolore.

The money, luckily, is not a major factor. I am fortunate that I can chop and change whenever. But I have been unable to get a commitment as to what the Xerox is worth. I bought it last March and traded my 749R. I paid £21000 and added a slipper clutch and some Defendall and a Tracker. Total outlay was around £22000.

So I call Ducati ######### tonight and enquire as to what deal they could give. Now bearing in mind they have never met me, spoken to me or sold me a bike it was perhaps slightly short of a deal from a "friendly" dealer, but they did in fairness have the balls to bid. £9000. Say that slowly.......nine......thousand......pounds..........!

And here is my theory. For those that wish to carry on reading.......


Ducati build a great bike. It is a revelation. They sell loads. The dealers only take PX's on SOR for fear of cash flow. Most people have a PX. The bike arrives and the PX is unsold. They cancel. The bike is offered about. Once the initial rush is over the rest sit on showroom floors. They have to be funded and the dealers panic. End of story.

So. Unless someone comes up with a sensible bid to do me a deal then i'll never buy another. Not because I dislike the brand, but more because they appear to have grown bigger than their boots. I am a penalty kick with an open goal. A dripping roast. But I will not have the @@@@ taken out of me by a dealer network and importer who cannot value their own product above all else.

I did ask another "dealer" to value a £10 note and they reckoned its only worth £4 because demand for them is a bit low!!!!!:D
 
Fergie if money aint that big a deal then whats the problem ? no offence but u seem to be contradicting yourself here. ???

/ian
 
This really comes back to where Ducati are in the marketplace and where they think they are going combined with what type of customer they plan taking along for the ride. (Perhaps in more ways than one!)
Ducati are going through an Alfa-Romeo phase. People buy for desirability, style, performance etc. and 12 months later you are offered less than half what paid for it by the dealer from whom you bought it.
Couple of years ago mate with an S4 and myself with 748sps fancied a change. Both spoke to several dealers to get idea of p/ex and were both told by all we spoke to that they didn't want our bikes as they had similar in their showroom. Well they did sort of but they were half the condition and twice the miles of ours! "Sell privately" we were both told. Will I buy a new Duke in the future?...probably not. Why we ride/buy Ducati has been covered before but this is a hobby not my job and whilst I don't mind paying over the odds for the kudos of ownership I don't want to be mugged when I fancy a change. Recent thread on dealer backing out of a 749R p/ex on a 1098 proves this is not uncommon. Recent forum debate on 999 prices etc and Factory comments confirm my thoughts on this. If Ducati don't have faith in their residuals you can't expect Mr Honda to do you a favour either! My tip for a firm Ducati residual is "buy a bevel"!!!
 
That seems a hell of a shame and obviously you are really upset. But, and I'm trying to defend the retailer a little here, they are taking a bit of a punt on your bike - really, aren't they? They have to have enough room in the deal to stand some warranty if they move it on as a second hand bike. Surely you can accept that they have a responsibility if they sell it and it goes wrong (best will in the world and all that not withstanding) then they could be facing some hefty repair bills under "sale of goods" through no fault of theirs. Granted, it may be in superb condition, well specced etc. but these things can and do go wrong. If it works fine and the sale makes some money for them then surely that is what they are there for? To be around for you and me when we need them. You have clearly used dealers before and they do have to work deals in order to survive. Best guessing but I bet the profit margins aren't huge on new bike sales anyway. A little more carefully constructed discussion could work wonders here, and might save the day for you. Negotiation rather than confrontation would be the way forward I suspect. It's part of the salesman's game after all and many of relish the thrill of the chase so to speak. Mountain bikes for god's sake lose half their value the moment they leave the shop (some of mine sell initially for 4k :eek: ). Take the bike to them, once it's in their face they may well have a different deal to do. I wouldn't let it cloud my initial response, even as a customer, rather try and make it work a little better for you. It's a difficult one from both sides of the fence. Private sale will get you more, but potentially at more cost too - advertising, test pilots, tyre kickers, time wasted etc. Good luck, I hope you find an answer.
 
It's all becoming clear now, I wondered why so many peeps own more than one Ducati, it's because the dealers won't px them and you think sod it I'll keep it anyway!
 
Surely the dealer who has had all your repeat business is keen to help you?Once the hoo-haa over the 1098 has settled down people will realise what great bikes the 749/999 are and residuals will recover.Hopefully before the chinese buy them over.;)
In the meantime I have sent you a pm cos I have been asked by someone to source them one:D :D :D :D
 
That seems a hell of a shame and obviously you are really upset. But, and I'm trying to defend the retailer a little here, they are taking a bit of a punt on your bike - really, aren't they? They have to have enough room in the deal to stand some warranty if they move it on as a second hand bike. Surely you can accept that they have a responsibility if they sell it and it goes wrong (best will in the world and all that not withstanding) then they could be facing some hefty repair bills under "sale of goods" through no fault of theirs. Granted, it may be in superb condition, well specced etc. but these things can and do go wrong. If it works fine and the sale makes some money for them then surely that is what they are there for? To be around for you and me when we need them. You have clearly used dealers before and they do have to work deals in order to survive. Best guessing but I bet the profit margins aren't huge on new bike sales anyway. A little more carefully constructed discussion could work wonders here, and might save the day for you. Negotiation rather than confrontation would be the way forward I suspect. It's part of the salesman's game after all and many of relish the thrill of the chase so to speak. Mountain bikes for god's sake lose half their value the moment they leave the shop (some of mine sell initially for 4k :eek: ). Take the bike to them, once it's in their face they may well have a different deal to do. I wouldn't let it cloud my initial response, even as a customer, rather try and make it work a little better for you. It's a difficult one from both sides of the fence. Private sale will get you more, but potentially at more cost too - advertising, test pilots, tyre kickers, time wasted etc. Good luck, I hope you find an answer.


Fergie's bikes only a year old RJ so still has a years manufacturers warranty left so no comeback on the dealer.

Top and bottom is the 999/749 are no longer the most desirable Ducati, prices are probably as low as they are going to be while 1098 hysteria is high but probably come summer when the factory closes down and demand still exists the man on the street won't be able to get a 1098 until winter which he won't be happy with so his only option is a 2nd Ducati and again if there's any 1098's 2nd hand it'll be with a premium or the 749/999 market which should see some £££ increase
 
OK, didn't know the warranty situation. That does make a difference then. The original dealer should be able to sort a mutually convivial deal out, surely? In fact he could sell it with confidence as a standard bike.
 
I do sympathise a bit here, having sold Ducs for a specialist a few years ago. its the same in other markets too, my wife and I are currently wanted to sell two matching very expensive watches, they cost alot of money but no dealers want to px them or even buy them. i have even been told to chuck them into the Firth and claim on the insurance (now there's a thought).

...give 10 years and your Xerox will be worth the same amount as you paid for it I'm afraid to say. Look at 888 prices compared to 916 prices!
 
Thanks for the comments guys.

Someone mentioned the "Alfa" syndrome. It applies here. Lovely emotive brand, but @@@@ residuals due to the dealers being fearful of their own product.

My bike is a 2006 model. It was registered in April. It is immaculate. It has a slipper clutch and a Tracker. It has full warranty.£9000 is an insult.

I am well aware that there will be some depreciation on my bike. I am prepared for it. My reference to the financial side is that I am fortunate to be able to change if the mood takes me. Not that I can afford to throw away money for fun. I have bought many bikes over the years and I consider myself as an investment for the future of the brand. Why buy anything else? But I will not be @@@@ed on from a great height.

There is a deafening silence from the network just now. Perhaps they realise there is a problem?
 
Thanks for the comments guys.

Someone mentioned the "Alfa" syndrome. It applies here. Lovely emotive brand, but @@@@ residuals due to the dealers being fearful of their own product.

My bike is a 2006 model. It was registered in April. It is immaculate. It has a slipper clutch and a Tracker. It has full warranty.£9000 is an insult.

I am well aware that there will be some depreciation on my bike. I am prepared for it. My reference to the financial side is that I am fortunate to be able to change if the mood takes me. Not that I can afford to throw away money for fun. I have bought many bikes over the years and I consider myself as an investment for the future of the brand. Why buy anything else? But I will not be @@@@ed on from a great height.

There is a deafening silence from the network just now. Perhaps they realise there is a problem?

yea you have a point ian, as john says the residuals should recover, but do u really wanna wait that long ?!?!? i wouldnt. like eddie says 10 years is a long time.
i wouldnt sell your xerox if i were you, it is STUNNING. have a 1098 as well :D

/ian
 
Must admit I had a Buell XB9r before seeing the light and buying a Ducati. Same problem, immaculate bike but crap residual. Paid £5k for it got £1800 back after 2 years. I believe that when you go out of your way to have something "different" its just not appreciated and you end up suffering for it unless you are willing to take the hit when you come to sell on. Its like the other thread concerning the 749r. Fantastic bike, lots spent on it but no one seems to want it. Why? Its different!
No matter how much money you spend on your bike, its very frustrating to be told its practically worthless. And its not necessary a Ducati thing.
 
Fergie, I know this ain't gonna make you feel any better, I guess I'm just stressing the point; the car industry is just as fcuked, we bought our last car - a Mercedes Benz A210 Evolution AMG, for £16.500 from MB London back in August '04. This car was exactly 6 months old and had done 4500miles. It had costed the Dr bloke (who bought it new as a stop-gap until his SL55 arrived) £26k!!! We rubbed our hands together as I'm sure you can imagine - that's not far shy of £400 a week it depreciated until we bought it. This compared to the roughly £52 a week on average it has depreciated in the 3 years since.
I have made it a rule now not ever to buy new again, a few months old is the trick, let someone else make the loss, hard but true.

Ducatis problem is that they don't make ultra limited editions anymore - I'm talking something like 200 units in total (the 3 suped up 750 F1's & 888SP's they made for example) - who can blame them either; Ducatis are desirable bikes now available to the masses unlike 10-20 years ago when they were reserved for the wealthy enthusiast.

....off soapbox now..:o
 
Hi All,

I have a similar dilema too, I own a 998s on an 03 plate (its a great bike) and don't no whether to sell it for the 1098 thats due? I do want a 2nd bike again, but this time I may try a multistrada? or go for something bullit proof like a Honda Blackbird for example. Because I ride quite alot having 2 sports bikes becomes very difficult. I love the looks of the classic 916/998 shape, but the costs can spiral very heavily..

Residual value's on cars and bikes have taken a hammering over the last 12 months and Ducati making the 749/999 for the masses hasn't helped that cause (unfortunately) although there great confidence inspiring bikes to ride. I recently sold a 04/04 749s for £5350 approx. I'd spent the better end of £2k on it and didn't get very much to show for it. Although when I test rode the 1098s at DL (thanks again) it felt more like a sports tourer (or like the 749 I had) than a sports bike, like the 998s. Its now even harder to choose.

Another example is a friend of mine bought an R1 last July it only had 8100k on the clock, year 2000? on a W reg and although the owner had treated it very carefully (no expense spared, when garage it had a duvet on it etc) my friend paid £2600 for it. The extra's on it must have cost about £1500 in total when new.

When selling your pride and joy, its hard when a value so low is put on them, but sadly at the moment thats life!! I do sympathize.....
 
Thanks for the comments guys.

Someone mentioned the "Alfa" syndrome. It applies here. Lovely emotive brand, but @@@@ residuals due to the dealers being fearful of their own product.

My bike is a 2006 model. It was registered in April. It is immaculate. It has a slipper clutch and a Tracker. It has full warranty.£9000 is an insult.

I am well aware that there will be some depreciation on my bike. I am prepared for it. My reference to the financial side is that I am fortunate to be able to change if the mood takes me. Not that I can afford to throw away money for fun. I have bought many bikes over the years and I consider myself as an investment for the future of the brand. Why buy anything else? But I will not be @@@@ed on from a great height.

There is a deafening silence from the network just now. Perhaps they realise there is a problem?

Where else would you go feggie ? for talking sake. surely not japaneasy

/ian
 
I want a 1098. Purely because it is the latest new thing.

Lets face it, the Xerox is still ultra rare and I'm probably not gonna see one coming the other way, unless Stuart next door is out on his!:D

My point is that if the network cannot sustain the market created by the 1098 then we have no network.

I want a fair deal on a new bike. In 6 months time when demand slides I'm sure I'll get one, but by then the damage will be done.
 
I want a 1098. Purely because it is the latest new thing.

Lets face it, the Xerox is still ultra rare and I'm probably not gonna see one coming the other way, unless Stuart next door is out on his!:D

My point is that if the network cannot sustain the market created by the 1098 then we have no network.

I want a fair deal on a new bike. In 6 months time when demand slides I'm sure I'll get one, but by then the damage will be done.

ack just have both !

/ian
 
So if you feel hard done by(which I agree you have been) why on earth would you give the same people who showed complete disinterest in your situation more money?
When you had your monster highside did you land on your head???The way Ducati/the dealers/the press have slagged off the 749/999 range is a disgrace and an insult to the customers who bought one.

THEY ARE ALL @@@@S.

I THANK YOU!!!
 
:twak: Your not alone, I've gone German as my upcoming 12k service on my Multistrada was gonna cost about 25% of its trade value!!

Stuff that I thought I've had enough of high running costs (that's forgetting tyres & chains) so gone over to the dark side - prop shaft, high residuals, no cam belts etc. Still 120 BHP though !! :censored:

Good luck whatever you decide. Try to keep it I guess!
 
Its a sad day when the Xerox has overtaken the Harley as the most un-desirable bike in my garage!!!!!!!!:D
 
Its a sad day when the Xerox has overtaken the Harley as the most un-desirable bike in my garage!!!!!!!!:D

dont start viewing it as an object of hatred now !

u can sit it in my garage if u like m8.

u'll get ure tri-colour, just have to wait :D

/ian
 
Keep the Xerox, ride it all summer and enjoy being on something different! Soon every man and his dog will have a 1098 so save your money till the autumn when the usual R1-GSXR1000-Blade types sell their 1098 latest toy as they will want the latest bike in spring 08. Muppets the lot of them.
 
Sinic....

Well I intend to buy a Tri-colore use it once for WDW and store it in the living room!! Once I've sold my house and moved. Isn't that what everyone does with a ltd edition Ducati model. Then in 5 10 years I'll try and sell it for the same cash I paid for it in 2007....

Regards one smug bar-steward......... LOL
 
Tricolore

Hi,
Like yourself I've also ordered a tricolore but intend using it as much as poss. First run weather permitting Durness and back hopefully with wife as pillion. All going well swop with my monster on daily commutes. I suppose in 10years time the residual won't be much but the fun will be worth it. Aren't they bought to be ridden?? I still have and use my Bonneville T140V which I've owned since 1978. I tend to hold onto things!! Unlike some affording the bike will be an issue and sure they depreciate very quickly but if i wanted an investment I'd put my money into property!!

Geoff
 
I really don't see the point in buying a bike and not riding it???

The Tricolore isn't exactly that rare either, anyone could and will simply paint up a 1098 and you'd be hard pushed to tell the different, there's no difference parts wise (apart from the termis) between it and a 1098S

At least Fergie's R and Xerox too is pretty much impossible to mimic without spending a small fortune, and that's not even going near a new engine which is different to all other 999 lumps
 
I really don't see the point in buying a bike and not riding it???

The Tricolore isn't exactly that rare either, anyone could and will simply paint up a 1098 and you'd be hard pushed to tell the different, there's no difference parts wise (apart from the termis) between it and a 1098S

At least Fergie's R and Xerox too is pretty much impossible to mimic without spending a small fortune, and that's not even going near a new engine which is different to all other 999 lumps

id aggree with that jon !

/ian
 
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