E mark on Exhausts
- Thread starter Chiz
- Start date
Chiz
Elite Member
Cheers Geoff.
I will tell the PC when I am down paying the fines tomorrow.
May buy him a DB gun so he can make sure instead of just assuming my bike is loud on full chat.
DDtB
New member
Funnily enough, about 2 weeks ago we had a wee chat with 2 bike cops in Inveraray about loud exhausts and their response was basically that they didn't care.
They said they'll be clamping down on small number plates this year, as well as the normal speeding etc. but as far as exhausts go... they won't be carrying dB meters so no probs if they're a bit on the loud side. Didn't specifically ask about the e-sticker though.
Doesn't affect me with my standard boring cans, but one of the group was particularly interested and parked up next to the cops and they said nothing about his loud one!
Cheers,
Dave.
They said they'll be clamping down on small number plates this year, as well as the normal speeding etc. but as far as exhausts go... they won't be carrying dB meters so no probs if they're a bit on the loud side. Didn't specifically ask about the e-sticker though.
Doesn't affect me with my standard boring cans, but one of the group was particularly interested and parked up next to the cops and they said nothing about his loud one!
Cheers,
Dave.
I'll bet the police don't take a blind bit of notice.
239desmo
Is it nearly bedtime?
Huge boost to the local economy. A lot of these guys are well heeled and no one wants to discourage them attending.
Police tend to co-operate with organisors and policing is a very low key affair.
To be fair when I did the Moto Giro in Italy they take the same view except they go to extremes by ensuring your Police escort has you going though red lights and roundabouts whilst they stop the traffic for you.
Loud cans are compulsory on that event anyway!
Chiz
Elite Member
Huge boost to the local economy. A lot of these guys are well heeled and no one wants to discourage them attending.
Police tend to co-operate with organisors and policing is a very low key affair.
To be fair when I did the Moto Giro in Italy they take the same view except they go to extremes by ensuring your Police escort has you going though red lights and roundabouts whilst they stop the traffic for you.
Loud cans are compulsory on that event anyway!
Would appreciate some Italian Policing at St Fillans then.
239desmo
Is it nearly bedtime?
I did a Laverda rally in the early 90's in the Dolomites with Massimo Laverda at the front and four police riders on Guzzis. They had all booked holiday time off to do it, unpaid as well
Seems these events are very popular with the Carabinieri.
There is a waiting list for them to do get into them and the same ones do it year after year.
Doctor Love
Active member
That's a fair point Chiz, to be honest unless they have a DB gun how can they just give you a ticket!!!
I just think that he's had bad day, and you got a bit on the receiving end,...prob a few others as well.
I'm getting really put off with all the police up there,..every time I head up that way they are out pulling bikers over.
It just ruin's your day -all the best M8
DL
centurysup
Active member
Harley exhausts are way too loud. I can't understand how the owners can cope with the din. Termis etc sound good. Harley exhausts are painful on the ears.
Gizmo
Forum Geek
Once again a complicated bit of legislation, AIUI without a roadside examination which requires a suitably qualified examiner they are on dodgy ground if the can is marked with an E or BS kite mark
A quick resume of what I think is the current legal position
Ask the question "Are you a qualified Vehicle Examiner?" Local plod can carry out a basic inspection of lights, brakes, tyres and horn and the like, but only a Traffic Officer (authorised, I believe it is still section 52 of the Road Traffic Act) can carry out a more detailed examination and impound the vehicle for that examination as the representative of the Chief Officer. To this end, a Traffic Officer carries a card with that authorisation and you are entitled to see it.
To this end, a normal beat officer can report for obvious defective exhausts, but for loudness, then it would have to be a traffic cop who has all the decibel recording equipment.
The legislation regarding the issue of an MOT states with regards to exhausts -
The law says that your bike will fail the MOT if:-
a. Any part of the exhaust system is missing or excessively deteriorated.
b. A leak in an exhaust system which causes excessive noise to be emitted.
c. An exhaust system mounting missing or one which is in such a condition that it does not fully support the exhaust system.
d. silencer which is in such a condition or is of such a type that the noise emitted is clearly in excess of that which would be produced by a similar machine fitted with a standard silencer in average condition.
e. A silencer fitted to a motorcycle first used on or after 1 January 1985 which is not marked with either:-
* The make and type specified by the motorcycle manufacturer.
* British Standard classification BSAU 193 or BSAU 193a or an EEC approval number prefixed by a small 'e' marking or an ECE approval number prefixed by a capital E.
* A silencer marked 'NOT FOR ROAD USE', TRACK USE ONLY' or similar words.
It then qualifies it by stating -
If you have an exhaust silencer that is an after market type which has no markings such as OEM No's, E marks or race only it's not illegal. Even if it is slightly louder than the OEM silencer. Most later style termis are marked with a "not for road use" stamp I think.
So, can they do you? If it doesn't have those markings possibly, for just being loud? only if they can show it is. For a small plate, yes so stick a big plate back on
A quick resume of what I think is the current legal position
Ask the question "Are you a qualified Vehicle Examiner?" Local plod can carry out a basic inspection of lights, brakes, tyres and horn and the like, but only a Traffic Officer (authorised, I believe it is still section 52 of the Road Traffic Act) can carry out a more detailed examination and impound the vehicle for that examination as the representative of the Chief Officer. To this end, a Traffic Officer carries a card with that authorisation and you are entitled to see it.
To this end, a normal beat officer can report for obvious defective exhausts, but for loudness, then it would have to be a traffic cop who has all the decibel recording equipment.
The legislation regarding the issue of an MOT states with regards to exhausts -
The law says that your bike will fail the MOT if:-
a. Any part of the exhaust system is missing or excessively deteriorated.
b. A leak in an exhaust system which causes excessive noise to be emitted.
c. An exhaust system mounting missing or one which is in such a condition that it does not fully support the exhaust system.
d. silencer which is in such a condition or is of such a type that the noise emitted is clearly in excess of that which would be produced by a similar machine fitted with a standard silencer in average condition.
e. A silencer fitted to a motorcycle first used on or after 1 January 1985 which is not marked with either:-
* The make and type specified by the motorcycle manufacturer.
* British Standard classification BSAU 193 or BSAU 193a or an EEC approval number prefixed by a small 'e' marking or an ECE approval number prefixed by a capital E.
* A silencer marked 'NOT FOR ROAD USE', TRACK USE ONLY' or similar words.
It then qualifies it by stating -
If you have an exhaust silencer that is an after market type which has no markings such as OEM No's, E marks or race only it's not illegal. Even if it is slightly louder than the OEM silencer. Most later style termis are marked with a "not for road use" stamp I think.
So, can they do you? If it doesn't have those markings possibly, for just being loud? only if they can show it is. For a small plate, yes so stick a big plate back on
Chiz
Elite Member
As I said on another thread. They did me without a DB check.
It was just THEIR HONEST opinion.
As I had seen them a couple of miles away I was basically idling towards them.
Getting told that I could recieve an ASBO & get the bike consiscated the next time was not to pleasing to say the least.
239desmo
Is it nearly bedtime?
That would be the distance they could smell the diesel if they were downwind of you.................
Chiz
Elite Member
That would be the distance they could smell the diesel if they were downwind of you.................
If it was not so far to travel,I would nip up to yer house & slap you.
Gizmo
Forum Geek
A copy of 2 posts I just made on Ducatisti related to this
Taken from a MAG article http://thames-valley-region.mag-uk.org/Pages/exhaust_legal.htm
The new MOT legislation requires that the vehicle tester is able to see the standard (original makers stamp) or aftermarket exhaust fitted to the bike is marked with the obligitory BSAU 193a and the European "E" mark. If your Exhaust can does not carry these markings, it could lead to a failed MOT and if you are stopped by the Police it can lead to a fine and points on your licence.
That was lifted from the MAg article, the noise test is up to the tester but the exhaust needs those markings, the tester can fail it if it doesn't have them and even if it does if, in his opinion, its too loud. The reason for this last bit is obvious - cored cans and removable baffle systems which might be marked but emit more noise than acceptable.
if you want chapter and verse try reading the government guidelines and advice to police officers on exhaust marking then see if you want to argue in a court of law.
Interim report of the Advisory Group on Motorcycling
and the bit from DOT where they clarify the requirement (and also indicate its complex and more regs exist) but also the last bit which I'd never seen before and might be worth investigation
(d) Exhausts - on motorcycles first used on or after 1 January 1985 the silencer which forms part of the exhaust system must be either:
(i) that with which the machine was first fitted; or
(ii) clearly and indelibly marked with :-
-the relevant BS marking BS AU 193/T2, BS AU 193a, 1990/T2, BS AU 193a, 1990/T3; or
-the relevant "e" marking to show compliance with EC Directive 89/235; or the relevant "e" marking to show compliance with Chapter 9 of EC Directive 97/24; or
-the name or trade mark of the manufacturer or marked with that manufacturer's part number - relating to it.
The European Community noise limits applicable to new motorcycles first used from 1 April 1991 are:
Motorcycle Category by cm3
Limits in dB(A)
Up to and including 80 = 77
Between 80 and 175 (incl.) = 79
Above 175 = 82
Motorcycles approved to EU Directive 97/24/EC, Chapter 9 will be 2dB(A) less than the above figures.
(Note: the precise regulations for motorcycle exhausts are complex and it is recommended that they are studied closely to obtain accurate and complete details of the requirements).
Before buying any replacement parts for systems listed in this section, riders should check for the relevant marks, where applicable. These will include an "e" mark for EC Directives, an "E" mark for ECE Regulations and "BS" for British Standards.
(Note: amateur motorcycle builders may be exempt from some or all of the requirements)
Its lifted from this document on powered 2 wheel vehicle regulations.
Taken from a MAG article http://thames-valley-region.mag-uk.org/Pages/exhaust_legal.htm
The new MOT legislation requires that the vehicle tester is able to see the standard (original makers stamp) or aftermarket exhaust fitted to the bike is marked with the obligitory BSAU 193a and the European "E" mark. If your Exhaust can does not carry these markings, it could lead to a failed MOT and if you are stopped by the Police it can lead to a fine and points on your licence.
That was lifted from the MAg article, the noise test is up to the tester but the exhaust needs those markings, the tester can fail it if it doesn't have them and even if it does if, in his opinion, its too loud. The reason for this last bit is obvious - cored cans and removable baffle systems which might be marked but emit more noise than acceptable.
if you want chapter and verse try reading the government guidelines and advice to police officers on exhaust marking then see if you want to argue in a court of law.
Interim report of the Advisory Group on Motorcycling
and the bit from DOT where they clarify the requirement (and also indicate its complex and more regs exist) but also the last bit which I'd never seen before and might be worth investigation
(d) Exhausts - on motorcycles first used on or after 1 January 1985 the silencer which forms part of the exhaust system must be either:
(i) that with which the machine was first fitted; or
(ii) clearly and indelibly marked with :-
-the relevant BS marking BS AU 193/T2, BS AU 193a, 1990/T2, BS AU 193a, 1990/T3; or
-the relevant "e" marking to show compliance with EC Directive 89/235; or the relevant "e" marking to show compliance with Chapter 9 of EC Directive 97/24; or
-the name or trade mark of the manufacturer or marked with that manufacturer's part number - relating to it.
The European Community noise limits applicable to new motorcycles first used from 1 April 1991 are:
Motorcycle Category by cm3
Limits in dB(A)
Up to and including 80 = 77
Between 80 and 175 (incl.) = 79
Above 175 = 82
Motorcycles approved to EU Directive 97/24/EC, Chapter 9 will be 2dB(A) less than the above figures.
(Note: the precise regulations for motorcycle exhausts are complex and it is recommended that they are studied closely to obtain accurate and complete details of the requirements).
Before buying any replacement parts for systems listed in this section, riders should check for the relevant marks, where applicable. These will include an "e" mark for EC Directives, an "E" mark for ECE Regulations and "BS" for British Standards.
(Note: amateur motorcycle builders may be exempt from some or all of the requirements)
Its lifted from this document on powered 2 wheel vehicle regulations.
Gizmo
Forum Geek
Possibly not , termi could state they are race use only, if you fit them the onus passes to you..... No-one says a ducati has to has termis
the bike is supplied with a road legal system and even the models that do come with it (R spec) say its not for road use.The difference baffle in to baffle out on my Smart with the termi e marked 2:1 is very noticeable, tickover or revv'ing but its got the markings and I know the risks if I use it baffle out
All I need now is an age related plate pre 85 and that would confuse plod 
Cisco
Active member
To tell you the truth I never really gave much thought to loud pipes on a bike or car..
..until Chiz's pull and the thought/threat of having the feckers be able to take your bike/car.
The termis are staying on the r but I'll think twice about going anywhere bike popular on a Sunday from now on. FFS.
Take care,
Frank
..until Chiz's pull and the thought/threat of having the feckers be able to take your bike/car.
The termis are staying on the r but I'll think twice about going anywhere bike popular on a Sunday from now on. FFS.
Take care,
Frank
Gizmo
Forum Geek
even if they try the Section 59/ASBO thing (after reading the link I'm not convinced they can get an asbo) the first time will be a warning, after that all you have to do is make your bike legal and they can't take it off you..... if you don't that is one hell of a big risk to take on a r spec bike
239desmo
Is it nearly bedtime?
It would appear the s59's are being targetted at known "problem areas".
This is/was the case in Aberdeen where residents were fed up with the constant noise by the beach area.
I haven't heard it being used on a random stop etc so perhaps the answer is if going to known "hot spots" be 100% legal or just avoid them.
This type of discussion of course is exactly what the authorities want as inevitably it makes motorists think about their actions knowing there are potentially serious consequences.
This is/was the case in Aberdeen where residents were fed up with the constant noise by the beach area.
I haven't heard it being used on a random stop etc so perhaps the answer is if going to known "hot spots" be 100% legal or just avoid them.
This type of discussion of course is exactly what the authorities want as inevitably it makes motorists think about their actions knowing there are potentially serious consequences.
or what....(edit) I sold them not long after i got bike
CJK
New member
If this is gonna be the hot potato that it looks like its gonna be for the summer I for one wont be out much more,I don't have a spare 5/600 bucks to get new cans for the bike,as i drive for a livin I don't think my employer would be impressed if i had an asbo to my name for a driving/vehicular so called offence.
Unless i can pick some up second hand...then do you trust the seller that they are legally marked etc.....pure p1sh this innit
Unless i can pick some up second hand...then do you trust the seller that they are legally marked etc.....pure p1sh this innit
Chiz
Elite Member
This needs to be taken on HEAD ON!!!
I am not letting this drop.
Will happily spend as much ££££££££££££ as is required to get this sorted.
If I am told I am wrong then I will need to bite the bullet, buy a track bike & enjoy that.
At the moment I feel I am getting HUMPED by a chief Constable that sent out a message to his men & I WAS THE ONE THAT COPPED IT.
I am not letting this drop.
Will happily spend as much ££££££££££££ as is required to get this sorted.
If I am told I am wrong then I will need to bite the bullet, buy a track bike & enjoy that.
At the moment I feel I am getting HUMPED by a chief Constable that sent out a message to his men & I WAS THE ONE THAT COPPED IT.
Gizmo
Forum Geek
Colin, I'd say those termi's might be OK, if you read http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafet...ling/interimreportoftheadvisorygr4639?page=12 and go to table 2, there is a line in most of the age brackets that ays "An International Standard mark that is equivalent to BS", from those photos it looks like the Termi's you have are EPA approved, EPA is the Australian equivalent of BS an if they are 80db are well below the BS standard. They have the name of maker etc so I can't see why there would be a problem.
an if they are 80db are well below the BS standard. They have the name of maker etc so I can't see why there would be a problem.
