Ducati Streetfighter Voted ‘most Beautiful Bike Of The Show’

Right,


If it is gonna add another string to Ducatis bow, keep the marque in business then I'm all for it. :)

You know what, I agree ..... and I don't care if they start making/selling 50cc chicken chasers let alone a butt-ugly stripped down parts bin special to get rid of the leftover 1098 engines (:p ), just so long as they use the readies to develop and subsidise the 2V torquey air-cooled streetable stuff like the SC and Hyper ..... both of which are nearly, but not quite, perfect!
 
A kanban is a notice to the parts department to tell them stock is running low and to bring more.
I agree with Gizmo, having seen first hand the Toyota factory in UK and the SEAT factory in Martorell. JIT is a huge process and much much more than just having engines made in a steady flow. Thats just level workload, and does not allow JIT to function, as true JIT allows production to be ramped up/down in a very short space of time. Easy to think about, but very difficult in practice.
Ducati probably use some elements of JIT, but the whole process is known as The Toyota Production System, and has thousands of books on every aspect. It is very interesting but costs fortunes to set up.
however, no matter what system they use, no matter how efficient they build them, no matter what..............

The Streetfighter is on seriously feckin ugly bike and a total seel out. In my opinion that is!

I used to work for building services consultants on design for the deeside and derby Takenaka buildings - Toyota. Amazed me that they had assembly and engines so far apart to make the JIT a working system. I believe the alloted time was 2 hours or thereabouts from order to receipt.
 
Right,

I've read this thread through. I personally hate the SF, I hate the whole concept of Streetfighters, not just Ducatis.

BUT...

If it is gonna add another string to Ducatis bow, keep the marque in business then I'm all for it.

There, my pennysworth!!! :)

i agree with that. i don't like the whole 'streetfighter' stuff. i'm pretty sure if ducati had choosen a different (italian) name for the bike the discussion wouldn't be that controversial. at least i like the bike although for the most guys it's only another version of an existing type of muscle bike.
 
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...I'm being flipant but the idea is, there is less company cash sitting as parts on shelves waiting to be used. Less storage is required and so on. There is quite a few reasons. They try to time the processes accurately so that the components used are ready just before they are required. This is why sometimes it is difficult to get parts for brand new models.

As Gizmo says - it's a fairly widely used practice, especially on large production lines.

My mate used to deliver parts to Ford at Liverpool and was always being held in a queue of trucks outside the factory with each truck being called in as and when their parts were required, i.e. truck load of fans, or truck load of wheels. Didn't matter if you arrived first in queue, just mattered that your parts were needed at specific times. "Waste of bloody time" was an oft quoted phrase.
 
...my household runs on the 'Kanban' system,

just in time to the school bus
just in time to the phone
just in time to get the rubbish bin out for the binmen
just in time to stop the girls killing eachother
just in time to the church for my wedding!!!!
just in time to sort the missus out before she divorces me!! ;)

:p :D
 
My mate used to deliver parts to Ford at Liverpool and was always being held in a queue of trucks outside the factory with each truck being called in as and when their parts were required, i.e. truck load of fans, or truck load of wheels. Didn't matter if you arrived first in queue, just mattered that your parts were needed at specific times. "Waste of bloody time" was an oft quoted phrase.

that is because there is no where to put the parts Alan, warehouse space costs, moving it from warehouse to line costs, its more efficient (for the assembler) to move from lorry to line, they aren't paying the lorry driver's time!

the reason i prefer the term Lean Manufacture to JIT is that people think the Just in Time is only about getting parts on the line when needed, there are considerably more factors involved but the philosophy is based on reducing waste whether that be poor quality, workers time, warehouse costs or cashflow. The original Ford system was the basis for the Toyota system, the downside to the Ford system was that it didn't cope with model change very well, the Toyota system gives a very high degree of flexibility, if you watch a car production line you'll see different colour cars getting built with different engines, trim and spec all on the same line, you wonder how the red car doesn't get the wrong interior but the system copes. I've seen bike lines where a bike comes off the line every 10 seconds, the company assembles for many different brands, different specs and colours and at any one time has hundreds of bikes on the line yet they all come off as they should. It involve a lot of planning and the cell working principle is key to it all.

Unless things have changed at Ducati they used to run multiple lines, SBK, monster etc this isn't try Lean Manufacture, its adapted to fit what they can achieve with their workforce, the Japanese don't have the same problem.

Its an area I'm interested in and trying to understandas we are pushing towards more option and choice on our bikes, got almost 20 paint finishes, hundreds of options on brakes, forks and components with the goal being a 10 working day turnaround for a custom order, we're coping with most bits but I now understand why the supplier relationship is so vitally important......
 
So its should be theoretically possible, even today, to walk into a dealer and order ,say, a bike with an aircooled engine,red frame and tank,black wheels,mid range suspension weighted to me personally,specified brake componants, specified footpeg arrangements and other special parts, rather than accept the narrower range put out by most manufacturers.

Is this the future? or too complex for for any motorcycle marque to support, after all isn't this what most car dealers do.
 
Henry Ford led the way with that Dave.... way back in Ford's early days you could have ANY colour you wanted......

as long as it was black
 
So its should be theoretically possible, even today, to walk into a dealer and order ,say, a bike with an aircooled engine,red frame and tank,black wheels,mid range suspension weighted to me personally,specified brake componants, specified footpeg arrangements and other special parts, rather than accept the narrower range put out by most manufacturers.

Is this the future? or too complex for for any motorcycle marque to support, after all isn't this what most car dealers do.

Some of that is do-able Dave but it depends upon your distribution model and available assembly locations. In cycling we can cope with it for our Uk distribution but it gets harder as we go to export, it all depends upon how long a customer will wait and whether you can bulk your finished product to save on shipping costs and the customer accepts that. We don't have as deep a relationship with our suppliers and few are UK sourced (hardly anything left here) which further complicates the business model but you find ways around these problems but it does require work. the car industry do it well but that comes down to the huge investment in JIT and the supplier relationship.


i think colour/engine spec and basic choices in exhaust/suspension should be possible, whether you can get that down to tuned for weight I doubt very much as the goal would be to bring a shock in already assembled, having to strip shocks and change springs or build every shock isn't cost effective unless you have a suspension company next door which Ducati did have in marzocchi but they now use Showa???.

To give you an idea of what can be achieved (in cycling terms) pop over to our website tomorrow when the 09 range goes live, pick a model like the Five S and start dropping the option boxes down, you can see from that how much customisation we're doing, I wouldn't claim its anywhere near efficient manufacturing or follows JIT principles but what we are finding is that customers like being able to pick what they want and dealers like being able to sell using this system.


Footpeg position choice and seat position choice was a feature Ducati already had but chose to throw away, the 999 series was one of the most interesting ergonomically because of this. The only other company anywhere close were GK Design who work for Yamaha, they had a couple of prototypes early nineties that were studies into how the rider interacted with the bike and how you cope with different body sizes. BMW do offer things like seat height options but thats about all. We did a bit of work with this, in cycling you need a female specific model, the base geometry is different as are things like lever shape and lengths/reach and crank lengths, we now offer one model specifically built like this, I can see no reason why a smaller manufacturer like Ducati couldn't do the same with something like a Monster, lower seat height, shorter reach, levers that are closer to the bars and shaped for smaller hands, pegs set a bit closer etc, its a niche but that's exactly where smaller brands should be, doing things the big guys don't see enough volume in (IMHO).


Can a motorcycle assembler do this? I'd say yes, its do-able but will need hard work, a lot of investment and a change in thinking, sales planing and forecasting and possibly distribution model which is always hard to achieve. If the likes of Ducati don't another brand eventually will (my best guess would be KTM trying it), the car industry went like this and I see no reason bikes won't follow eventually, it just depends whether you see your business in moving the same box time after time and in volume or with lower volumes and customers who are prepared to pay for what they want.
 
Don't know if it's been mentioned but BMW are bringing out a range which will offer alternatives such as lowered seat height. :)

If you were to ask Stuart next door to DG I think he would say seat height features greatly in the work he is asked to carry out.:)
 
Gizmo,

Please accept my apologies. I inadvertently gave you a groan on your post above. :embarassed:
I have now retracted it. :comp2:
 
Don't know if it's been mentioned but BMW are bringing out a range which will offer alternatives such as lowered seat height. :)
The newsletter blurb from Narol Cash says low seat height bikes (BMW) are to be available for indoor test rides at NEC.

Didn't Honda start a concept early 2008 in Italy where a bare blade was available with customer chosen bits and bobs such as exhaust, seat, wheels et cetera
 
Gizmo,

Please accept my apologies. I inadvertently gave you a groan on your post above. :embarassed:
I have now retracted it. :comp2:

I saw that Derek, just put it down to a bad day...:D :D :comp2:
 
Michael, how do you get time to write so much on these threads, I haven't got time to read them (being a slow reader!:o ) let alone write that much!!! :p
 
it don't take long Ed, with stuff you know its just typing it out hardly time consuming for a thousand words or so. Spend most of me life in front of a screen or with a phone against me ear (or both) so don't find it too hard to do plus its a release from thinking about work, its hard to be focused every minute of every day. Saying that i was off last week which gave me a bit more time to write a few long replies
 
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