BSB riders at Hartside

Gizmo

Gizmo

Forum Geek
Sunday 14 June - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/8098835.stm

British super bike champions are helping Cumbria Police drive home a road safety message.

James Ellison and his brother Dean will be joining motorcycle officers on Sunday on the A686 in the Hartside area, a popular motorcyclists' route.

The event, centred on the Hartside Cafe, will encourage riders to stop, chat and listen to safety advice.

So far in 2009 there have been 21 serious collisions involving motorcyclists in the area.

Pc Paul Owen said: "We want people to understand the consequences of speeding and anti-social motorcycling, and remind them of the heartache left behind when a loved one dies in a road traffic collision.

"As well as educating motorcyclists, we will also be enforcing the law, and anyone caught speeding or driving dangerously can expect to be caught."

James Ellison, who races for the Airwaves Yamaha team and recently secured first place at Donnington Park said: "Riding a motorcycle on a road can be dangerous, and riders should remember this.

"The roads are not a race track - if riders want to race their bikes then they should attend a track day."
 
safe riding

this is a great idea, but how about educating CAR drivers of the dangers of slamming on the anchors, not using mirrors, indicators and general poor road manners, the majority of bikers also drive cars and i`d love to see a stat for a motorcyclist that has caused a car/bike accident. this kind of event makes me feel like a naughty kid and i must `take care` and `listen to the nice policemans advice, how about educating the dicks in kevved up focus`s and impreza`s first!!! can you tell this makes me a bit mad!!!!!???
 
having sat on the cumbria crash team as bike rep this kind of thing is needed, you can blame cars for some accidents but the majority on Hartside are rider error no car involved, last stats i looked at it was about 95%........

Oh, Cumbria do run boy racer education as well, they were actively targetting this and also had the IAM trying to encourage the kids to learn to drive responsibly, local garages had leaflets to had out to parents buying cars for their kids and many garages helped with that.

Despite the impresssion of it being aimed at bikers there are other initiatives we don't notice but living in Cumbrias and watching the carnage every year one soon realises where the problem lies .....

I'd disagree in towns/cities but this ain't a city there are fewer cars and too many bikes pushing it that bit too far
 
Hmmmm, sorry fellas, I can't agree on this one.

I am of the opinion that the open road is fair game and any one who wants to curb my enthusiasm is a member of the fun police!

Yes I want to take risks and yes I know the crap that will be left behind if I cock up, however.....I take bigger risks in my day job and I dont see many people getting BSB stars coupling with the enemy and actively making a stand against that atrocity!

Rant over, flame on :finger:
 
jakeblues68 said:
Yes I want to take risks and yes I know the crap that will be left behind if I cock up, however.....I take bigger risks in my day job
Click to expand...

I can only assume from this remark that you have not experienced losing a partner in a 'cock up' and I therefore greatly doubt that you have any understanding of 'the crap' that is left behind - forever.

Please have more consideration for the people who love you. This is not a rant, just a heartfelt plea.
 
Book a trackday and stop being a prick, see how fast you really are !

jakeblues68 said:
Hmmmm, sorry fellas, I can't agree on this one.

I am of the opinion that the open road is fair game and any one who wants to curb my enthusiasm is a member of the fun police!

Yes I want to take risks and yes I know the crap that will be left behind if I cock up, however.....I take bigger risks in my day job and I dont see many people getting BSB stars coupling with the enemy and actively making a stand against that atrocity!

Rant over, flame on :finger:
Click to expand...
 
jakeblues68 said:
Hmmmm, sorry fellas, I can't agree on this one.

I am of the opinion that the open road is fair game and any one who wants to curb my enthusiasm is a member of the fun police!

Yes I want to take risks and yes I know the crap that will be left behind if I cock up, however.....I take bigger risks in my day job and I dont see many people getting BSB stars coupling with the enemy and actively making a stand against that atrocity!

Rant over, flame on :finger:
Click to expand...

ah, the 1% that f'ck it up for the majority... Have you hit anyone yet and killed or badly injured them? i guess not cos if you had you'd know what its like to live with the guilt or doubt that you were in the right, f'ck risk factors or any PC crap but that's the reality when your actions impact on others (well it is if you have any decency). If you really want to understand try reading this where the driver badly injures a biker on Hartside, it fascinating and thought provoking.....

Don't get me wrong I like playing around on bikes but i choose when and where i do it, Hartside, Sunday afternoon, June, horse traffic, summer seals trying to keep up with their mates probably isn't the place I'd choose to do it but Cumbria police know when and where the most accidents occur so make sure they go to the places with the best chance of influencing the riders most at risk.

James will be giving his time for his own good reasons, he's from Kendal knows what its like riding here knows how many die each year, what other work he does I have no idea but I'm sure if you pop along you'll find he's the kind of rider that knows how we ride and won't be preaching a kill speed/double white approach which is what will happen if we don't put our own house in order........
 
mbg said:
I can only assume from this remark that you have not experienced losing a partner in a 'cock up' and I therefore greatly doubt that you have any understanding of 'the crap' that is left behind - forever.

Please have more consideration for the people who love you. This is not a rant, just a heartfelt plea.
Click to expand...

I have lost quite alot of people close to me, a few in "cock ups" and a few at the fault of grandads in Volvo's! So YES I do understand the crap thats left behind, forever.

The people who love me also understand that without my job or my freedom that comes with two wheels, I wouldn't be me.
 
Gizmo said:
ah, the 1% that f'ck it up for the majority... Have you hit anyone yet and killed or badly injured them? i guess not cos if you had you'd know what its like to live with the guilt or doubt that you were in the right, f'ck risk factors or any PC crap but that's the reality when your actions impact on others (well it is if you have any decency). If you really want to understand try reading this where the driver badly injures a biker on Hartside, it fascinating and thought provoking.....

Don't get me wrong I like playing around on bikes but i choose when and where i do it, Hartside, Sunday afternoon, June, horse traffic, summer seals trying to keep up with their mates probably isn't the place I'd choose to do it but Cumbria police know when and where the most accidents occur so make sure they go to the places with the best chance of influencing the riders most at risk.

James will be giving his time for his own good reasons, he's from Kendal knows what its like riding here knows how many die each year, what other work he does I have no idea but I'm sure if you pop along you'll find he's the kind of rider that knows how we ride and won't be preaching a kill speed/double white approach which is what will happen if we don't put our own house in order........
Click to expand...

Please do not mistake me for a jean wearing, gloveless, GSXR riding chav that I think is the 1% you are refering to.

Perhaps the good police of Cumbria's time would be better spent on researching facts and figures from accidents and injuries relating to using mobile phones/ipods etc whilst driving a vehicle?

I also carefully choose when and where I ride, I seldom break speed limits and NEVER cross white lines.

I seldom ride in a group, especially not in a group of ducati riders, who in my experience are the worst people for trying to "out do" each other.
 
jakeblues68 said:
Please do not mistake me for a jean wearing, gloveless, GSXR riding chav that I think is the 1% you are refering to.

Perhaps the good police of Cumbria's time would be better spent on researching facts and figures from accidents and injuries relating to using mobile phones/ipods etc whilst driving a vehicle?

I also carefully choose when and where I ride, I seldom break speed limits and NEVER cross white lines.

I seldom ride in a group, especially not in a group of ducati riders, who in my experience are the worst people for trying to "out do" each other.
Click to expand...

Ahh, they should be out catching criminals, try driving a car round Cumbria on a Sunday and you will see why the Police have concerns, they are trying to appeal to the people they can't normally reach, trying to get through to the people that think they are better than everyone else.

As Gizmo quoted, alot of the accidents in the Hartside area happen because the rider runs out of talent, its that simple. .

James does ride on the road, he is also very approachable as is Dean, they are passionate about the county and if they influence just one rider to wind his neck in then they have succeded, as for the rest, well.

BSB stars coupling with the enemy, from that I take it you are in the forces and as such I take my hat off to you and thank each and every one of you for taking up that career path.
 
jakeblues68 said:
Perhaps the good police of Cumbria's time would be better spent on researching facts and figures from accidents and injuries relating to using mobile phones/ipods etc whilst driving a vehicle?
Click to expand...

they do use the stats !! hence why they are targetting bikers and young drivers who make up the majority of those who end up in the KSI figures!! there are more than just police involved in initiatives like this, those CRASH teams involve all the services and members of public from different road user groups hence how i know what goes on and, honestly? phones and ipods might be involved in some accidents but the majority on the A686 are rider error with failure to negotiate a bend probably the most common.

What is interesting is that between November and May the stats were looking good, since May and the return of bikes they've dropped again :(, I'm sure the phone using/ipod using car drivers didn't stop what they were doing for winter so that just leaves one user group to look at ( other than caravan towing tourists).....

Other than the Chief Constable who made an appearance all the other officers involved came from Cumbria or Durhams bike divisions so its not like they were using a resource allocated elsewhere and I'd bet the stats today are an improvement on a typical Sunday on Hartside.

Cumbria/Durham/D&G and Lothian have tried a lot over the last few years, all aimed at rider education rather than NY's more hard handed approach. If it fails we all know where its headed and I have no desire to see 50 mph limits and double whites on every decent road.

you can knock and complain but imho its better to try and do something than simply ban or restrict and I'm glad i live in Cumbria not NY, i got stopped today, short chat but no mention made of how loud my can was on the Smart ( and it is noisy) and allowed to ride on, is that not something we should encourage rather than complain about?
 
Gizmo said:
they do use the stats !! phones and ipods might be involved in some accidents but the majority on the A686 are rider error with failure to negotiate a bend probably the most common.

What is interesting is that between November and May the stats were looking good, since May and the return of bikes they've dropped again :(, I'm sure the phone using/ipod using car drivers didn't stop what they were doing for winter so that just leaves one user group to look at ( other than caravan towing tourists).....

If it fails we all know where its headed and I have no desire to see 50 mph limits and double whites on every decent road.

you can knock and complain but imho its better to try and do something than simply ban or restrict and I'm glad i live in Cumbria not NY, i got stopped today, short chat but no mention made of how loud my can was on the Smart ( and it is noisy) and allowed to ride on, is that not something we should encourage rather than complain about?
Click to expand...

I think you are confusing yourself with stats.
I won't argue that the accident numbers for the A686 will have MC's at the top. Maybe thats because it's such a great road for bikes.

Perhaps it should be compared to an equally busy road for cars and other vehicles, what would the accident stats be for that particular road in comparison?

I wouldn't want 50mph limits either, but do you think a roadsign stops the hardiest of speeders? The limit could be 30mph and it would make little difference.

Your can is obviously noisy, is it legal?
If not why not?
You choose to bend the law in one area where it suits, don't be so hard on others who want to bend their chosen law ;-)
 
most of this thread jakeblues68 has had a pretty hard slating and i can see why, but on the noisy can thread i`m right behind him on that! i may of started this whole thing with my comments and remarks about rozzers but honestly...... come on guys, i too have a loud as f**k can and also ride a 6x4 no plate, no mirrors and indicators. so i`m a bad guy now am i? are we all to be judged not by the way we ride but how we look? harley and guzzi`s with there shotgun straight thru`s cruise straight past the feds un disturbed but cos we `look a bit naughty we bear the brunt` frankly i think it`s trying to teach us how to suck eggs, and a licence to print money for us wanting to maybe try look cool, i `d sooner my taxes were spent on stopping the 20 year old smackhead down the road robbing your granny for a cheap hit.
 
jakeblues68 said:
I think you are confusing yourself with stats.
I won't argue that the accident numbers for the A686 will have MC's at the top. Maybe thats because it's such a great road for bikes.

Perhaps it should be compared to an equally busy road for cars and other vehicles, what would the accident stats be for that particular road in comparison?

I wouldn't want 50mph limits either, but do you think a roadsign stops the hardiest of speeders? The limit could be 30mph and it would make little difference.

Your can is obviously noisy, is it legal?
If not why not?
You choose to bend the law in one area where it suits, don't be so hard on others who want to bend their chosen law ;-)
Click to expand...

Doh, there are 4 or 5 main casualty roads in Cumbria, A686 and A6 being 2 of them - both popular bike roads, we've also got heavy casualties in young kids in hot hatchs in rural locations, these make up the majority of the KSI stats. Yes, you can make statistics do whatever you want but remove bikes and young kids and serious accidents are few and far between, sleepy drivers on the M6 is about the next highest.

The 686 is lightly used in comparison to say the A66 yet has one of the highest rates of KSI, reduce the crashes on the 686 and you dramatically reduce the stats hence the attempt to do so today.

No, road signs don't stop speeders, getting them to stop and think about what they are doing ( what they attempted today) just might, even if its only for the hour after that, its better than doing nowt. What lower limits and double whites do is increase frustration so more break the law, its worth trying to prevent that imho hence why I'd support any action that tries to reduce accidents without legislating it away.

Sorry, my can is legal e marked as are all our other bikes,:p its loud cos its a termi but does have the markings, however, i'll speed when i chose to do so. I'm not advocating everyone sticks firmly to the law as i believe a fixed, arbitrary speed limit is clearly madness, road conditions and rider ability dictate a safe speed but i also know the implications of what its like to knock someone down, read that link I posted, think about it and if it ever happens i can guarantee you'll question your ability to assess risk which i think is all plod was trying to do today. Not once did they say stick to the speed limits, the message was ride safely, look after others in your group and don't take risks and here's details of Bike Safe courses.

Is that a waste of time? Personally I don't think so,
Is it worth getting the likes of James involved? imho Yes, lots of folk chatting to him today and its good to see a local rider support a local safety initiative.

Each to their own, some may see this as a waste of resources I see the opposite and preferable to heavy handed speed gun policing surely?
 
yeah, which reminds me i must sort a bike out for him :) need to talk him and Guy into doing this 6 hour endurance DH in August, he's pretty good as an endurance rider ain't he :D
 
Gizmo said:
yeah, which reminds me i must sort a bike out for him :) need to talk him and Guy into doing this 6 hour endurance DH in August, he's pretty good as an endurance rider ain't he :D
Click to expand...

Very, very silly fit yes and a World Endurance Champ !
 
Just watched it and thought it was interesting , think it was aimed mainly at bikes tho , which isn,t that bad an idea after watching the programme. Don,t think it would make any difference changing from 60 to 50 imho !!.
 
jakeblues68 said:
I think you are confusing yourself with stats.
I won't argue that the accident numbers for the A686 will have MC's at the top. Maybe thats because it's such a great road for bikes.

Perhaps it should be compared to an equally busy road for cars and other vehicles, what would the accident stats be for that particular road in comparison?

I wouldn't want 50mph limits either, but do you think a roadsign stops the hardiest of speeders? The limit could be 30mph and it would make little difference.

Your can is obviously noisy, is it legal?
If not why not?
You choose to bend the law in one area where it suits, don't be so hard on others who want to bend their chosen law ;-)
Click to expand...


Well then - ride safe, enjoy - and stay out of our county !!:mad:
 
It covered most of the problems, young drivers, bikes and 80 year olds over turning cars :) Pity they didn't pick up on the double white over taker on the 65, a classic case of driver frustration caused by introducing a 40mph limit and 2 miles of double whites :doh:

The focus will always be on bikes, if we hit something the chances are it'll involve the emergency services, in a car you can have a minor bump that doesn't show on stats hence why we get the attention. Going from 60 to 50 won't reduce that though :(
 
Quite a hornets nest been stirred methinks ! I thought the bickering comments were a winter blues syndrome not a summer feelgood factor ? Come on guys 'n gals, each to there own and what ever rocks your boat. Me personally, i don't need to be a risk taker or speed junky to enjoy the preferred solo ride out and the natter over a brew at a roadside cafe. I think what was made clear on the Rural Roads 999 programme was rider / driver error and the need for better skills training. We all take some sort of risk in our daily routines from the moment we step out of the home but 99.999% of the time we escape the consequences. Life is a gamble so enjoy it while you can.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom