1299S or 1098R?
- Thread starter pauly
- Start date
Company car and costs me nothing (almost). So I can live with it. I have to buy a car when I retire, so will see what I fancy then. 
I've got £16k here for it?Mine has an alloy tank, NOVA gearbox and Nemesis traction control.
Your not doing it rite pauly don't offer him the 16k till @Barry Hell offers him the obligatory 2k then swoop in for the purchaseI've got £16k here for it?
Is that for sale?
The wheels look trick, do you still have the originals?
Jeeeeez, please remove the blue , my eyes
I've got all the original bits for it. You always keep original bits.
I've got 2 fuel tanks, wheels, another set of Termis and god knows what else. I would have bought a V4, but the 1299 fitted me better.So you both got the bikes you wanted in the end
Oi, I'm not taking the piss, it's a proper offerYour not doing it rite pauly don't offer him the 16k till @Barry Hell offers him the obligatory 2k then swoop in for the purchase
. I'm still expecting a fly past from DV after he spat out his dummy. I want £15k p/ex for my 1299 too 
.Not you again FFS.
Is the 1299 a true Ducati, after all, the purists will ask, where's the trellis frame? Where's the belt driven cams?I would have bought a V4, but the 1299 fitted me better.
Oi, I'm not taking the piss, it's a proper offer
With that being said, I like them so, I'll bid £2.5K and a happy ending at a massage parlor of your choice! A friend recommends eastern european establishments!
Love my 1299I would have bought a V4, but the 1299 fitted me better.
Oi, I'm not taking the piss, it's a proper offer
I looked for a 1198S for months, but plenty of them had expanded tanks, and most people said the 1299S was better bike. If a sorted 1098R came up though I could buy it...Love my 1299
I'd imagine the 1299 is far more rideable than the 1098r my 1098s is far harder to ride than my 1299 and the R is supposed to be crazy
I came from a BMW 1000RR, and the 1299S is harder to ride. These days I've had enough after an hour on those 2. So maybe 30 minutes on a 1098R would be enough.
I had an s1000rr too sublime bike and very easy to get on with
sev
Elite Member
The 1299 in that respect will always be the better bike.No doubt which is the most desirable, but leaving emotion out of it, bog standard, out of the crate which is faster on a track and on the road. I've dared to call into question the judgement of R owners on another forum, and some wanted to fight me.
It's newer, the engine technology is a world apart.
The electronics are a world of difference, the traction control is tied to the ECU proper and works properly as opposed to just cutting the ignition to the rear cylinder - badly.
The 1299 is 12 years newer and it shows in every way.
I've no doubt that an old car with no aids separates the men from the boys, but at the same time a modern car is quicker just because its easier to drive fast due to all the technology, and so it is with the panigale.
The riding style will be different, and looking at various roadtests etc, I get the feeling you need to ride the bike more like a japanese IL4 than a traditional ducati because of the way the frame is configured, so not so much carrying corner speed but trying to get out of cornering as quickly as possible.
The trellis is more yielding than the monocoque - I don't like it, I think for an SBK its a pretty pants design, and I think the next evolution will be a motogpesque frame with the monocoque being relegated to multis and monsters, for which it will be perfect due to it's inherent design flaws.
Will you notice? of course you will. The ergonomics straight away, no different to climbing onto an old 90's superbike and realising that your heels are stuffed up your arse and your hands are holding the front spindle with you spread over the tank like a squashed frog and the bars are making your wrists scream at anything other than a full race tuck.
What you will notice is just how ridable and quick and amazing the Panigale experience is with minimal effort from yourself. That's a decade of evolution for you.
ride that 1098R and an 888 back to back and you'll feel the difference in every way from ergonomics to the way the engine talks back and the frame works.
1098R is a special thing for sure. But it'll never be a panigale and a panigale will never be a 1098R.
1098R has it's reputation because at any time the thing can and will spit you off, coupled with primitive TCS and a few other noncy bits like the twin injector setup and you'll find that the experience is one where you have to work to get the most out of it. I bet to harness it's mentalness you have to know what you're doing.
Panigale will save you all that pain, and you'll find that the bloke on the 1098R gets a fresh one torn by bloke with half his talent on a panigale just because panigale rider doesn't have to be on his A game all the time unless he wants to be spat off the thing.
You can be in a ferrari F40 and within five minutes everything has changed and you're on your roof or spinning out of control.
You can get in the latest Ferrari and run rings round an F40 with no driving credentials at all.
Same reason, the car will still scare the crap out of you and fuck you up, but it's not the matter of course the minute you get into it. If you just want to go do your shopping in it you can with no drama or effort.
So back to your original question - if it's just about jumping on and going faster, then Panigale.
even if the power and curves on paper don't stack up to a 1098r, the advancement in tech and systems and engine and frame will just make you quicker because you're not fighting to control and tame the bike at the same time. You can give more of your time and concentrate your effort on riding, which in turn will make you quicker and faster.
1098R came out in 2008. That 1299 has got more sphisticated systems than the factory 1098F08 racer had. 14 years makes a lot of difference.
If it's just about which one is better then in isolation, a decade newer is always better. That's just evolution for you.
AndyB prime example. His interest is in riding and going as fast as he can on track. Why the hell would he get a 1098R over the latest panigale which can do everything easier, bigger, better, faster more? In his mind as everyone who wants the same thing, he will look at everything that came before and just say its a load of old shit. That's not to say it was shit in it's time, but compared to what's out there ten years on... yes, it's a load of old shit.
You'll buy the 1098R for every reason other than you just want to be the quickest and most competitive. 1299 or V4 will always win hands down. It's not just about the engine - it's everything that goes with it.
Calm down, he was paraphrasing a famous ex-policeman privateer."A load of old shit". Well I don't care how much things move on, that's some statement.
Should everything 12 years or older just be thrown in a skip? Is it all about the latest technology and ease of riding? I'm off to chuck the LC in the river.
Thank you for your detailed post. For a lot of years I wanted the fastest and best handling bike, but over the last 3 or 4 years that gradually started not to matter so much. Probably because I'm getting older, and didn't fancy the consequences of things going wrong. That's why I started looking for a 1198S instead of a newer BMW or V4S, I'm not saying a 1198 isn't a fast bike, but after getting used to riding a bike with all the riding aids, I would have to slow down. My 1299S is a great bike, but would the bottom end grunt of a 1098R or 1198S make it feel a lot faster on the road, even if it's not?
sev
Elite Member
you didn't read or interpret the post."A load of old shit". Well I don't care how much things move on, that's some statement.
Should everything 12 years or older just be thrown in a skip? Is it all about the latest technology and ease of riding? I'm off to chuck the LC in the river.
The OP has asked everything aside, which is better.
He comes from the S1000RR world where the computer rules, the computer is the bike.
That statement you've chosen to quote was a homage to AndyB and his famous it's all a load of shit sentiment was coming from the standpoint that evolution will always be better, especially in the context of the OP's original statement : but leaving emotion out of it, bog standard, out of the crate which is faster on a track and on the road.
So that post was written relating specifically to the question he asked in the sprit that he asked it.
In the case of your LC, lets face it a modern R300 can piss all over it in every way. Will it ever replace it? No.
A panigale even an R will never be a 1098R, a 1098R will never be a 999R, a 999R will never be a 996R and a 996R will never be an 888sp5 or SPS.
You hopefully see where I'm going with this.
You can't compare a 1299 to a 1x98 in whatever guise. There is too much to separate them in terms of evolution.
Does it mean you should throw them in the skip? of course not.
Any modern supercar will be streets ahead of a 90's supercar. Doesn't stop people paying the wrong side of 12 million for a McLaren f1.
A car with no ABS, traction control, ESP. nothing, and even the aircon is shit in them.
Then why bother?
Because they are what they are.
I love a 999 family bike. Always have. I'd rather have a 999 with a 999 engine that makes 160hp than a 1098 that makes 160hp.
I love my superlights and SS.
Would I try and compare a modern Supersport and ask which is better? No. Why not? because they're not the same.
Everything newer is better, faster, more. The halo product of today will be the everyday of tomorrow, it's just how it is.
The 200 quid samsung telly will do more than the 2000 quid panasonic of ten years ago, and better and easier.
Does that change anything? No.
You can bang on about all the horsepower and performance and handling in the world, but jump on that superlight down a B road, stick it in 3rd between 30 and 70 and just roll on and off the throttle and you wonder why anyone ever bothered and got wrapped up in banging on about all the horsepower and performance and handling.
So no, you shouldn't throw your LC in the river.
I shouldn't throw my SL in the river.
But there's no way you can compare your 1098R like for like to a panigale anymore than I can compare my 900SL to a new supersport.
It's like a desmosedici owner getting all sand in the vagina about the V4R. they're not the same thing. They're not the same bike. Comparing like for like is unfair.
There's over a decade to separate them and side by side that will show. Does it cheapen the D16? no. Does it make it any less special? No.
But if I was a race team or an AndyB trackday rider, I'd have relegated the D16 to history if there was a V4r to take it's place.
The OP was asking what's easiest out of the crate to live with, ride and go fast on.
If that's the question, then the purest answer is go for the newest bike.
If AndyB was here, he'd say the same, but word it as everything that's of that era is just shit compared to what modern tackle can do. One can argue all he likes against progress, but sadly as I've said, The halo product of today will be the everyday or mediocre of tomorrow.
So no, don't throw your LC in the river just because it's old. After all, it's always going to be an LC, and nothing newer better and faster can take that away.
You buy a 1098R or D16 because you recognise it for what it is, what makes it special over and above what else was around at the time, but if you're buying one to go up ahead and lock horns with todays best of breed offerings then you'll always be disappointed.
And that's what the OP was asking. Out the box, that 1299 in the hands of a mere mortal will always match or outshine the 1098R for the same amount of rider input and effort.
Whether it will excite him in the same way.. well that's another story.
This about nails it really. Several years of pani track and race time and I became quite happy to lean on the electronics a lot more. Going back and checking the days data logging would show multiple instances where the bike was bailing me out and keeping us upright. I often joked that it was the bike getting quicker, not me, to lads I used to dice with.
I've never tried back to back sessions on the two bikes to see how my overall times varied on the same day, but I was quicker on the pani for best times overall. I enjoy wrestling the 1098R and the visceral experience far much more than what pani lap times give me, so my pani days are nearly done.
sev
Elite Member
And therein lies the tale.
