Death Penalty.. You For it or against?

Do you agree or disagree with the death penalty


  • Total voters
    22

NOODS

Well-known member
Subscriber
Do you believe in the Death Penalty?

I’m talking within the so called Democratic Western World..

After hearing that late last night a convicted woman became the first in many years to be executed..

Trump ignored a further appeal apparently to spare her, where Biden has said? he will stop the death penalty..

This Woman’s case was particularly difficult.. As a youngster she was horrifically abused for years by both her parents and sadly she later went on to commit a horrific murder by killing a women and her unborn child in a chilling way..

Clemency was asked on the grounds of her mental state etc etc..

It’s difficult being judgemental in these situations i know especially when your not privy to the full facts ..

Have your say, cast your vote...

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Exige

Elite Member
Subscriber
That particular case was a difficult one, and my first instincts were 'no'. But other cases I would be more easily swayed, it depends on the crime and the certainty for me. If the certainty can ever be 100% and the crime is fitting, then yes, but can it ever be 100% :unsure:
 

Noobie

Elite Member
Subscriber
I would say yes.

She strangled an 8 month pregnant woman till she passed out, then took a kitchen knife and started cutting into the pregnant woman whilst was still alive to cut her baby out. The pregnant lady came too during being cut open and the attacker then strangled the mum till she died. She then carried on cutting into the mum to take the baby out and then carried on calm as day whilst convincing others the baby was her own.

It wasn't random, she went looking for a pregnant woman to kill and cut up to steal thier baby. It warrants a death sentence as there was no doubt at all about what she had done but once given a death sentence, I think it was cruel to keep her in prison for so long before carrying out her sentence
 

Exige

Elite Member
Subscriber
I would say yes.

She strangled an 8 month pregnant woman till she passed out, then took a kitchen knife and started cutting into the pregnant woman whilst was still alive to cut her baby out. The pregnant lady came too during being cut open and the attacker then strangled the mum till she died. She then carried on cutting into the mum to take the baby out and then carried on calm as day whilst convincing others the baby was her own.

It wasn't random, she went looking for a pregnant woman to kill and cut up to steal thier baby. It warrants a death sentence as there was no doubt at all about what she had done but once given a death sentence, I think it was cruel to keep her in prison for so long before carrying out her sentence
Didn't know the gruesome story, but her history has to be part of the decision too, clearly insane :unsure:
 

NOODS

Well-known member
Subscriber
That particular case was a difficult one, and my first instincts were 'no'. But other cases I would be more easily swayed, it depends on the crime and the certainty for me. If the certainty can ever be 100% and the crime is fitting, then yes, but can it ever be 100% :unsure:
I don’t feel anything can be 100 percent mte and as you say, there lies the problem.. Apparently in the last weeks of Trumps Presidency they have been speeding up the executions due to Biden coming along with an anti stance on the death sentence... X
 

NOODS

Well-known member
Subscriber
I would say yes.

She strangled an 8 month pregnant woman till she passed out, then took a kitchen knife and started cutting into the pregnant woman whilst was still alive to cut her baby out. The pregnant lady came too during being cut open and the attacker then strangled the mum till she died. She then carried on cutting into the mum to take the baby out and then carried on calm as day whilst convincing others the baby was her own.

It wasn't random, she went looking for a pregnant woman to kill and cut up to steal thier baby. It warrants a death sentence as there was no doubt at all about what she had done but once given a death sentence, I think it was cruel to keep her in prison for so long before carrying out her sentence
I agree there also mate.. But, without banging my drum too much I personally know just how deranged you can become through serious MH issues and by having had serious Abuse experiences too..
Sometimes poorly subscribed meds take take over and cause horrific thoughts etc.. I used to have terrible Hallucinations on some of mine, I simply can’t describe how bad they were especially 30 years ago etc, better now hopefully..
That doesn’t say her decision was just, no, if anything her wellbeing should have been looked into and provided her with better care..
I did some weird stuff apparently but thankfully didn’t get into her state..
I pity all three to be honest, The two victims and also the convicted..

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Nasher

Well-known member
Subscriber
Her case is 100% confirmed that she committed the awful crime.

So lets assume she wasn't 'in her right mind' at the time.

Any person who comes around from an episode like that and realises what they've done shouldn't be able to live with themselves, is likely to have another episode and harm themselves or others, so put her down.

If she comes out of the original episode and can live with herself she's obviously got no problem with doing it again, so put her down.

Either way it's the same result.


Nasher.
 

NOODS

Well-known member
Subscriber
Her case is 100% confirmed that she committed the awful crime.

So lets assume she wasn't 'in her right mind' at the time.

Any person who comes around from an episode like that and realises what they've done shouldn't be able to live with themselves, is likely to have another episode and harm themselves or others, so put her down.

If she comes out of the original episode and can live with herself she's obviously got no problem with doing it again, so put her down.

Either way it's the same result.


Nasher.
By no way am i disagreeing with you there mte.. However, the likes of Nielsen, Sutcliffe Steve Wright ( killed 5 girls in Ipswich ) should they get the Death Sentence or should have? Some would prefer to see them suffer ( hopefully ) in a prison while others say why should tax payers accommodate them..

Then of course there’s the ones they get wrong... I remember an interview with a black American guy who was on death row for 30 years i think and they finally proved without any doubt he did not commit the said crimes, terrible case of wrong identity etc.. He said although he had narrowly missed death he had almost paid a higher price by sitting a few rooms away from it for most of his adult life..

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AirCon

Resident Thermodynamics / Electronics specialist
Subscriber
Can you remove life sentence to the DF as this is a cruel and unusual punishment describing a punishment that is considered unacceptable to most of the world due to the suffering, pain, or humiliation it inflicts on the person subjected to the sanction.
 

Gimlet

Well-known member
Subscriber
I'm against. Aside from the question of miscarriages of justice, I would be deeply uneasy about handing to the state, and all-to-often politically motivated judges, the power to sit in judgement over the life and death of citizens, outside of war and the defence of life in a law enforcement emergency.

And even of the most heinous criminals where there is no question of guilt, death is too short a sentence. It's a let -off. How many of them try, and sometimes succeed, in taking their own lives rather than face a life in jail? How many full life termers have begged to be allowed to die and have gone to court to try and have medication withdrawn that is keeping them alive? Life means life. Keep them alive and let them confront the enormity of their crimes for the rest of their days.
 

Nasher

Well-known member
Subscriber
One of my issues is my taxes being used to 'look after' these people whilst they are locked up.

In cases of no doubt or a guilty plea, capital punishment should be employed.

In the case of paedophiles I favour the option of releasing them on a quiet back street at a well published time and place whilst the police will have something better to do on the other side of town.

Nasher.
 

NOODS

Well-known member
Subscriber
In the case of paedophiles I favour the option of releasing them on a quiet back street at a well published time and place whilst the police will have something better to do on the other side of town.
Regarding the above that got into our family and decimated it, I was asked at work by a friend there who had read the press report about the ex B in laws crimes, he asked if i knew which prison he was in and would it be of interest if a friend of a friend of a friend arranged for him to have a little accident inside..
All i can say is ( as there’s no way i could condone such an activity) a few weeks later we heard that the ex had apparently been moved to another prison for his own safety, no details were given by the officials but my friend who had a friend who knew another friend said apparently he’d heard that my ex B in L had experienced a particularly nasty fall..

I had to be consoled, obviously... X
 

West Cork Paul

Elite Member
Subscriber
I’m undecided on this matter, always have been all my adult life, still can’t decide what’s the right course of action. On the one hand an eye for an eye and all that but then on the other hand if it’s morally wrong that someone kills someone else surely it’s morally wrong that the killer is also killed? Surely wrapping it up in an ‘approved by court and the jury’ wrapper doesn’t make it morally right?

In the instance cited above my initial, base, thought was yes, execute her, that was the most heinous of crimes. As I read further into the story it appears she suffers severe mental issues which made me think that perhaps executing her was not the right course of action.

however, I do believe a life sentence should mean a life sentence. In several US states, I believe it does but in the UK & ROI it does not, it invariably means just 8-10 years are served inside and that, imo, is wrong.
 

NOODS

Well-known member
Subscriber
I’m undecided on this matter, always have been all my adult life, still can’t decide what’s the right course of action. On the one hand an eye for an eye and all that but then on the other hand if it’s morally wrong that someone kills someone else surely it’s morally wrong that the killer is also killed? Surely wrapping it up in an ‘approved by court and the jury’ wrapper doesn’t make it morally right?

In the instance cited above my initial, base, thought was yes, execute her, that was the most heinous of crimes. As I read further into the story it appears she suffers severe mental issues which made me think that perhaps executing her was not the right course of action.

however, I do believe a life sentence should mean a life sentence. In several US states, I believe it does but in the UK & ROI it does not, it invariably means just 8-10 years are served inside and that, imo, is wrong.
With you there mte... Mind you there are those convicted who we are told will never be released eg a real life term, but then why should us the tax payers also get a life term by having to pay his or her accommodation fees etc for the remainder of their life.. X
 

Noobie

Elite Member
Subscriber
There is a side that hasn't been touched on so much yet, the victims family.

When it is a clear cut no doubt, 100% on the money they did it and are given a death sentence for thier crimes, the victims family have to go through that during the whole trial. Then on every anniversary that follows, everytime the media bring it up, so in effect the family and loved ones of those dead also get a life sentence as there is never any closure. Some live in fear of some judge saying it's okay, it wasn't really you who did it, you weren't well so we are letting you go.

For some families and loved ones, they live this sentence every single day and are never able to bring closure till the attacker dies and only then can a huge sigh of relief be had and the start of putting things behind them.

There seems to be a whole industry geared up to support the attacker whilst little or no support for the real victims both direct and indirect
 

ariel

Active member
Subscriber
Could the thought of being hanged sometimes serve as a deterrent ? In the days when you would be hanged for killing somebody I have kept my anger in check. :) :). In the days when we saw judges donning that black cap and telling the murderer " You will be hanged by the neck until you are dead". Enough to put many people off.
 

ariel

Active member
Subscriber
Death penalty should be be an option if for no other reason than a deterrent
the justice system seems to have forgotten the reason they exist
Sorry Marcduc my comments about deterrent were composed before I read your post on the subject.
 

Markduc

Well-known member
Subscriber
Sorry Marcduc my comments about deterrent were composed before I read your post on the subject.
No problem :)
the deterrent effect isn’t something that can be measured, but it must make some people think twice
does the uk have more murders now than when the death penalay was in force ?
there does seem to be more crime as the prison/ justice system has got softer
 

West Cork Paul

Elite Member
Subscriber
With you there mte... Mind you there are those convicted who we are told will never be released eg a real life term, but then why should us the tax payers also get a life term by having to pay his or her accommodation fees etc for the remainder of their life.. X
That’s a cost a sophisticated society with a moral compass that points in the right direction has to bear. Otherwise where do you draw the line? Do we go all Saudi Arabia like and cut off the hand of a thief? It would save prison fees that’s for sure and is highly likely to act as the deterrent @Markduc and @ariel suggest, but is the right course of action?
 

Duke of Prunes

Active member
I was deliberately avoiding this one .... but what the heck .

For me , it's the possibility of mistakes that makes it unacceptable .

Take the Birmingham Six as an example ..... they would surely have been executed had it been an option .

And as for executing people who are clinically insane , only a sub-human society would do that
..... IMO
 

ariel

Active member
Subscriber
That’s a cost a sophisticated society with a moral compass that points in the right direction has to bear. Otherwise where do you draw the line? Do we go all Saudi Arabia like and cut off the hand of a thief? It would save prison fees that’s for sure and is highly likely to act as the deterrent @Markduc and @ariel suggest, but is the right course of action?
Yes Paul, these are issues that are not easy to resolve in a civilised society. As with politics, the opinions on the type of punishment for murder vary. This forum's views on the subject throw some light on the dilemma we all feel.
 

Everclear

Well hung member
Subscriber
@NOODS The Poll is nonsensical.

"Do you agree or disagree with the death penalty?"

Answering "Yes" means "I agree or disagree with the DP".
Answering "No" means "I don't agree or disagree with the DP"

So either option has no meaning.

❓

 

NOODS

Well-known member
Subscriber
@NOODS The Poll is nonsensical.

"Do you agree or disagree with the death penalty?"

Answering "Yes" means "I agree or disagree with the DP".
Answering "No" means "I don't agree or disagree with the DP"

So either option has no meaning.

❓

A vote for yes... means Yes i agree with the Death Penalty sentence..

A vote for no.. means No i disagree with the Death Penalty sentence..

A vote for Life Sentence.. means a full life term is served in Prison or incarceration..

A vote for a life term with the DF.. means if convicted you will be in the hands of the DF for the rest of your life..

A vote for Undecided... means i’m not sure on any of the above options i therefore can’t make a decision and i therefor remain undecided..

Apologies for any misunderstanding but English is not my first language.. However Cockney is...

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HootOwl

Active member
Subscriber
I would disagree with the yanks having it, they are fairly inept at the best of times. There can be zero room for error if you are sending someone to the chamber, but the yanks have made many, many errors over the years in convicting the wrong person.

Follow the story of Rubin Carter for a perfect example :(
 
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